Sarcoidosis Answers for Physicians, Nurses and Patients

Here at SarcInfo, between 2002 and 2004, we identified the cause of Sarcoidosis, and successfully trialled a curative antimicrobial therapy. During 2005 and 2006 the US FDA designated the antibiotics Clindamycin and Minocycline as Orphan Products in the treatment of Sarcoidosis, and studies are ongoing elsewhere.

For information about this breakthrough, please post your questions at the current study-site, or the Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
 
This archive of the historic study is maintained by volunteers from the Foundation. The material here provides useful background, but much of it is now out-of-date.

** Patient Tutorials **

 Click here to read "WHY DID I GET SARCOIDOSIS? WHY ME? 

  Click here to read "REMISSION IN SARCOIDOSIS"  

 How a Pathologist can see Bacteria causing Sarcoidosis 

"How does Doctor measure my ACE, and my D-metabolites?"

 Weaning from Prednisone

 Protecting your eyes in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Hypervitaminosis D Symptoms    The SarcInfo F.A.Q.

Medical Abbreviations          CBC Radio Show

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

 

** Papers for Physicians **

Antibacterial Therapy induces Remission 

Implications for Autoimmune Disease 
(Here is Fulltext preprint)

Antibacterial mechanisms for ARBs 

Antibiotics in Sarcoidosis- The 1st Year 

Rationale for abx in Sarcoidosis 

1,25-D and Angiotensin II

"New Treatments Emerge.."

Jarisch-Herxheimer in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

The NIH ACCESS Study finds Sarcoidosis does not go away - Click here to see, and print, the brochure


 Main Menu  |  Search  |  Log In   Newer Topic  |  Older Topic 
 Heart Sarcoid
Author: Anthony Morris (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-11-02 16:18

Could i get some info on some symptoms i have had Sarciod for the past 14 years but in the past 2 it has just taken over my kidneys and now they say my heart. It started with my legs going numb and left arm and my bottom lip all get the same feeling and then it follows with the chest pain and it is like someone has put a rod in my heart. I take the nitro and it helps but i am very short of breath as well i can not do much at all i walk around a store and then i am done for the day. I am on 60mg of prednisone a day i have been up to 120 mg but that was last year, i will be going in to Hospital for a open Biopsy of the lungs heart sack and lymph nodes, but the numbness is the one that is bothering me and the chest pain .
Any one would like to give me some thing to go on i would be most grateful

God bless you all ,
Tony

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-12-02 22:22

hi tony, i have neurosarc. i just had a cardiac echo with a new pulmonary doc. my right lower chamber is not pumping blood as it should. since i can't walk on the treadmill, i will have a albuterol(sp?) stress test next week and another echo. then i will make a return visit to the doc and see what they find. she hopes to find out this way, as being non-invasive.

from my reading, cardiac involvement is pretty grim. i did not discuss much with the doc as i just turned inward when she advised me of her findings.

i've had chest discomfort front and back which i had thought was from my lungs. my lungs and pft's look 'good'. recently i have felt what i can only discribe as my heart beat feeling 'squishy'. if you can imagine squeezing a sponge underwater, that's how it feels.

i tire very, very easily also. if i cook a meal or one small house chore which can be as simple as dusting, i have to lay down. i am exhausted. sometimes my husband will have to help me to my feet because i don't have the strenght to get up.

i am sorry i have no advice to give. there is much to be learned by reading the many informationals here. i just want to say hello and welcome. even with losing a couple battles along the way, maybe we will someday win the war.

caroline

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Anthony (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-13-02 05:34

re, Thank you Caroline,

I will let you know how i get off with the tests i go in to Hospital on the 25 th and then they will tell me what and so on they plan to do,they have siad they will get me off the Prednisone and try me on something new.
onc more thank you all .
God Bless you

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-13-02 08:41

Caroline said: "even with losing a couple battles along the way, maybe we will someday win the war"

That, folks, is what it is all about...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Cher (144.138.106.---)
Date:   07-13-02 22:43

Hi Anthony & everyone,
Anthony my Sarc symptoms are very much the same as yours with very severe chest pain (& what I have often thought was a heart attack feeling) which is like a hot poker being put into & pulled out of my heart numerous times every day. I was prescribed Prednisilone at my initial diagnosis & took it for 6 weeks (with very severe reactions to it) & have refused it ever since.
For pain relief & to cope with the breathlessness I have been taking MS Conten for 2 years.
There is a link that is near the bottom of the Phorum home page regarding Opiods & it has worked so well for me that I have been able to return to work after an initial 3 months in hospital & further three months off work. Yes I still experience pain every day & the breathlessness never goes away completely but my quality of life has improved immensely from the use of Morphine (MS Conten). I have several other problems from the Sarc which are not helped by the morphine but to be able to work gives me so much pleasure that I will stay on the MS Conten as long as it continues to give me that quatlity.
It's worth reading the link if nothing else & something to show your doctors.
Cheers & stay positive ...
Cher

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-15-02 21:02

Hi Tony,
i failed to mention in my previous answer, that the doc who found the possible problem with my heart said I would most likely be kept on methotrexate. also, that after a few more weeks time, the dose could be increased.

i will be most curious as to your treatment and what you are given for a time frame for improvement or at the least stabilization.

caroline

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tony (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-16-02 05:21

Hi Caroline,

I went yesterday for an MRI so now i am just waiting to get the results and then on the 25th i see the Dr that is doing the open biopsy on me they have told me they will change all my Medication so i will keep you up to date on it all once more thank you for your suport .

Tony

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Rae (24.68.184.---)
Date:   07-17-02 10:44

Hi Tony:
I was Dx'd with pulmonary sarc in 1997. Than cardiac sarc in 1998. I had an abnormal ECG..in fact I was told I had a MI. I had chest pain and SOB and I felt all the symptoms were related to the lung disease. After seeing a specialist and having an echo they ruled out a heart attack. It was not a surprise to me because I am sure I would have known if I was having an MI capable if causing the damage the ECG showed. Further testing ( EP studies) showed a 2;1 AV block so they put in a permenant pacemaker. I now have a complete heart block and am pacemacker dependant. I went off steroids in 1999. But due to a relapse in the lung disease it looks like I am going back on prednisone... Tony there is very little information out there re: cardiac sarc. What type of biopsy are you having? The Drs here.( Calgary and Saskatoon) are very reluctant to do a biopsy on my heart. Anything I read its such a hit and miss of the grandulomas, therefore the procedure can give you a false negative.

Good luck with all your tests Tony. Would like to hear what kind of meds they put you on.. I am scared of starting prednisone again. What part of BC do you live in?

This is such a great site, very informative. It sure helps to now you are not alone. Rae

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-17-02 11:13

Besides deposition of granuloma and the subsequent fibrosing by collagen, Sarc can also harm your cardiac function by depositing calcium into its soft tissue, and even into the heart muscles. I was looking at a pathology slide of a calcified heart this morning, but I can't find the reference right now (sorry).

Was this a factor in either of your diagnoses?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-17-02 17:14

Hi all,
i went for my stress echo today. the speed of my heart beat was increased by drugs (IV). i am unable to use the treadmill. once the heart rate was at a target speed the tech had a cardiologist come in and look at the monitor. i will see my own doc on monday at which time i will find out the results. I will also have Trevor & Lizs' paper in hand to discuss.

i didn't have any chest pain or discomfort during this, so hope that is a good sign. it's a long wait! i just hate waiting for results.......
Caroline

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-18-02 13:50

Caroline:
I too, had to have this stress test because I couldn't walk or use the tread mill. My results were okay on it. They call it a "man made stress test" because they inject you with a drug that increases the heart muscle much as you would if you were on a treadmill.
My name is also Caroline....I sign Caroline McG.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tony (Anthony Morris) (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-20-02 23:40

Hi All,

I hav not been to goodthe past week back in ot Hospital it looks like it has come back to my Kidneys i hav been put on Morphine it takes the edge of it but ,i will be going to get the results on the 25th when i see hte Dr that will do all the biopseys i hav not forgoten you guys take care
Tony

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-21-02 12:37

Hi Tony,
Just a short note to let you know i am so sorry to hear you are having such a rough time of it. Have you discussed Trevor's theory with your Doc.? Take care, thoughts are with you--get better soon!
Caroline

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tony (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-25-02 07:34

Hi Caroline,

Just a short note to let you all know i am hanging in there it has been a tuff few days ,today i go to see the Dr's so i will let you know how it all gose and what they plan to do with me and my mediction,so you all take care

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   07-25-02 09:35

Good on ya Tony,
As we say here in Australia, keep on keeping on.
Thinking of you from over the oceans ...
Cheers & Stay Positive
Cher

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-25-02 21:39

Hi Tony and All!
How are you doing Tony? Hope you are hanging in there.....

A brief update on my visit today with a cardiologist. She is sending me for a cardiac catherization next tuesday. both echos indicate a pumping problem in the lower right back lobe. she said a cath would indicate a false positive, a blockage or sarc. if it would be a blockage they would discuss it with me, then possibly continue on with a stint or angiography (balloon).

she also sent me home with sublingual spray nitroglycerin. I am not looking forward to the cath., but i sure want to know what is going on.

I hope my D3 results come back soon. What is back consists of four pages but the D3 measurements are still 'pending'.

Caroline

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tony (---.bc.hsia.telus.net)
Date:   07-27-02 10:51

Hi Caroline and All,

Just me still kicking after a tuff week a lot of pain hart and kidneys i seen the Dr but i will not know anything till next week ,i just thought to keep you all up to date my med's are still the same so no change.
I hope you all are do OK ,will talk to you all soon take care please .

Tony

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Mary M (---.dialsprint.net)
Date:   08-29-02 12:05

I have cardiac sarc. grim or not I've beat it for 4 years now! My vision did white out usually before I fainted due to the blood not getting to the brain. Just so you know there are some of us around that are doing great!

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-29-02 12:12

Mary,
Welcome to SarcInfo.
When you had problems was it an erratic beat? I have always figured that if a Sarc patient can get muscle spasms and cramps from high 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin-D then that could eventually affect the heart. But I never let my sarc get that bad, so I don't have any experience to draw from. Can you recall irregular beats? Anything other than vision white-out?

I guess I am thinking one ought to be able to recover from Heart Sarcoid once one fixed the underlying 1,25-D problems - but that is not the current medically accepted philosophy... which is that sarcoidosis affecting the heart is most frequently fatal... You have proven that false, now we need to figure out how to help others...

..Trevor..
ps: Pacemakers apparently help with prognosis, which would also strengthen my spasm or cramp theory...

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Mary M (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-30-02 14:29

Trevor:
I have a pacemaker for the complete block that I have. They reconstructed my heart. I have an o ring on my mitral valve and they did the maze in the Left atrium because I was in A fib. Then when they went to wean me from the bypass the heart was to weak and deceased to start up again. So they added the pumps to my system and allowed it to rest. Little by little I came back. That was 4 years ago. And have since done very well. I have periods where my body has some serious events. My vision whites out and I can not get 02 and I stagger. I can feel my heart beating, it just is not progressing my systems. Mayo has yet to figure it out they just do not know. Sometimes it happens so fast I just drop with no warning what so ever. I have the internal loop that automatically records I have Q'd it during an event. And it is set to record itself. So far it has showed no arrhythmias. This last trip in they found a lesion on the replaced o ring. They also discovered my tricuspid valve has a big leak. My pacer wire is blocking it. I do wake up to leg cramps in the night horrible ones. Sometimes even though I take zanaflex. Usually I stagger, last year I totally fainted twice. So as of yet the answer to your question is no erratic beat. Before they put in a pacemaker in I could not stay conscious. Day or night.

Mary M

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen (65.121.96.---)
Date:   02-14-03 16:15

Hi All -

My experience with sarcoidosis is primarily cardiac. My main symptoms have always been chest pain, shortness of breath and fatigue. This has gone on for 3.5 years. My chest pain has always been in exactly the same place. I had a stress thallium that was positive; an angiogram that was negative for any blockage; despite the cardiologist knowing my sarcoidoisis history (my father and sister had pulmonary sarcoidosis), he did not take biopsies.

My heart rate (52 before illness) elevated to up to 130 resting; I had an exercise tolerance test 2 years ago - my resting heart rate at that time was documented 100; and my alveolar exchange percentage was 50, with other deficiencies. My blood pressure is also higher; I was approx 110/60 - I was as high as 175/115; with almost constant diastolic hypertension.

Along with tachycardia, I have had irregular rhythms; (I am an ex-paramedic and familiar with cardiology) and have noted skipping consistant to second-degree block; unfortunately, we have been unable to document this; and when I had it while I was being monitored at the hospital, it was blamed on the "machine".

My latest echocardiogram shows pulmonary hypertension, that was not present before. My ACE and CRP levels have always been elevated; and despite not finding sarcoidosis in my bronchoscopy, there was much inflammation and "mucous plugs". Sarcoidosis has been visualized in my eyes.

My chest pain has been helped with oxygen and nitroglycerin; I have been on a beta blocker for over 2 years now, and have noticed relief with Trevor's regimen of Benicar, Minocin and reducing vitamin D. My shortness of breath is also much better; my pulse rate is generally in the 60's or 70's, with occasional tachycardia; and my BP is 110/80 at this time.

I am 41, and despite these and other findings, have been deterred from the diagnosis of "cardiac sarcoidosis". I, however, have no doubt it is my heart; everything else has been excluded, and the cardiac meds helping is a major clue!

I would certainly like to think that Trevor's regime can change the fatal prognosis of cardiac sarcoidosis; I believe the strain on my heart is lessening with this treatment, which should lead to better and longer health.

I know cardiac sarcoidosis can be anything from tachycardia to third degree block and arrest; mine is not "obvious enough" for the specialists; but I know I am sick, and my blessed GP knows I am sick, and together, with this site, we are working out of it!

Hang in there - I know it's scary, but there is help, and there is hope!!

Kathy in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   02-14-03 18:25

Bayyinah,

Wecome to SarcInfo.com. I hope you will continue reading here because I think you will find interesting and helpful information.

As for the skin lesions.. my skin lesions finally resolved after I avoided sunlight and vitamin D foods and took a course of Minocin, an antibiotic. I suggest you read through these topics on this board:
If you have Sarcoidosis, you must stay out of the Sun
Vitamin D levels in food
ARB therapy - nuts and bolts
Minocin treats Lymph, Skin & Lung Sarcoidosis


Best wishes,
Belinda

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: mmommer (---.nas1.cedar-rapids1.ia.us.da.qwest.n)
Date:   02-16-03 14:50

Tony:
medical technology has come a long way.. I am a cardiac sarcoid patient. It was discovered 5 years ago, and I am doing well. though they watch me extremely close. I have a pacemaker for my heart block. I do get extremely hard chest pains. Usually my arms go numb. It's all from the decease. Lately I have a hard time digesting food I become breathless. But over all I water ski, play golf, snow ski. etc. If you have anything questions I will try my best to answer. Mayo discovered my cardiac sarcoid by biopsy.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   02-16-03 15:08

Mary,
It sure sounds as though your sarc is still fully active. The "hard time digesting food", dyspnea and numb limbs are tell-tale signs, IMO.

Consequently, I am not sure that I agree with the treatment course you have taken. Certainly, in my personal case, I placed my long term health ahead of my desire to "water ski, play golf, snow ski", etc.

Now that I am in remission I am indeed very glad that I took that approach. Looking back, I can see how close I came to also becoming a cardiac patient like yourself. In fact, the ARBs were first prescribed for me in 1999 because some early signs of cardiac sarc involvement had appeared. Now I have a totally clean bill of health, of course, (except for the lung fibrosis).

I seem to recall that you had lost quite a bit of your vision from successive eye operations. How are your eyes doing? Are they still OK?

Keep smiling,
Trevor

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen (65.121.96.---)
Date:   02-16-03 17:42

Mary -

You mentioned "extremely hard chest pains" - when I started taking the Minocin, the Herxheimer effect was a very hard heartbeat - it resulted a weakness radiating from my left chest - and it beat so hard, I was afraid it wouldn't beat again...my Benicar was increased the next day, and that feeling is pretty much gone - but is was very scary - I wasn't sure I'd make it through the night! Is that the way your chest pain is?

All the way through this illness, I have felt I would ultimately die of it, but not immediately, except that night. I no longer have that feeling - even of eventual death due to sarcoidosis.

I don't know how you exercise - I have been afraid to overload my heart; plus, my shortness of breath wouldn't allow much activity.

On a good note - last night, watching TV - I did a little dance - you know, the goofy dancing you do - and I had NO SHORTNESS OF BREATH or CHEST PAIN! It is truly a miracle!!!

Take care,

Kathy in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Johnine (---.dialup.mindspring.com)
Date:   03-02-03 12:52

I have had a lung biopsy in 1981 verifying I had lung sarcoid. About three years ago I became chronic and could no longer work. My heart has had a pace maker put in and I am on 3 heart medicines for a very fast heart rate.
How did you find out you had sarcoidosis of the heart. The University of Washington wants me to go in for a galium/thalium test to see if I have sarcoid of the heart. Any information would be appreciated. Please answer by email Thanks Johnine

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen (65.121.96.---)
Date:   03-02-03 16:13

Johnine-

My symptoms have always been cardiac - chest pain and shortness of breath. I had an echocardiogram 3 years ago, which was basically fine; another one about 9 months ago, which showed pulmonary hypertension, and an enlarged left atrium (? I think - I'll have to check the report.)

I had a gallium scan, that was basically unremarkable (but the radiology tech who performed the scan told me it would be - that it was basically an outdated, too-general test, that is mostly inconclusive.)

I had a stress thallium 2 years ago - which was positive for ischemia in the left ventricle (again I think - I'll have to re-look at this report also!) This scan has been a matter of debate since then - some physicians say it is positive, and appropriately in the area sarcoidosis is likely found; and others say it is artifact. Given that I am symptomatic, and the administering physician found EKG changes and found the test positive, I go with that.
No one has ever suggested repeating it. My subsequent angiogram was negative for any blockage; although it was irritable. (Despite knowing my history of sarcoidosis - familial and symptomatic, the cardiologist did not take biopsies.)

I have also experienced hypertension and tachycardia - my EKG's are usually fairly normal, with some atrial arrythmia - therefore, again I am told that it is not sarcoidosis - and that it is not "probable". My blood pressure and pulse, which used to be around 110/60 and 52 have been as high as 174/113 and 130 resting pulse. While my symptoms are not as obvious as a major blockage would be, they are still quite incapacitating. The chest pain location never varies, and shortness of breath has always been present.

My father and sister had pulmonary sarcoidosis, so I have a family history...

After seeing multiple specialists and cardiologists, I am back with my GP; I take beta blockers to slow my heart and BP; and the ARB Trevor recommends, which also helps lower BP and pulse. After my experience, all I can say is that if you are symptomatic, and you already have a positive biopsy, and everything else is ruled out, it's hard to dismiss cardiac. Something makes my heart beat incorrectly, and yours also. As Trevor said to me, they may find nothing structurally wrong, but inflammation - which is sarcoidosis - can really have a profound effect.

I have never had a positive biopsy (my bronchoscopy was negative, and that's all that was ever biopsied); but my blood tests for inflammation (ACE,
CRP, vitamin D metabolites) have always been positive, and I am responding very well to Trevor's regimen of ARB, Minocin and avoidance of vitamin D.

Best of luck, and take care...

Kathy in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen (65.121.96.---)
Date:   03-02-03 17:32

Johnine -

A quick addition to above - I was willing to biopsy anything to get a firm diagnosis - after reading the thread of general questions, I am glad I was NOT biopsied any further; I am responding appropriately to treatment, and have clear evidence of inflammation - and that's good enough!!

The important thing is to get better...

Kathy in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Meg (---.188.244.147.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   03-02-03 18:11

Johnine,

Doctors love to test you and quantify whatever they can with numbers. But you already have a biopsy-confirmed diagnosis of sarcoidosis. IMO, further testing is unnecessary, costly and possibly dangerous. If you consent to these tests and they are positive, you will almost certainly be prescribed high doses of steroids.

The only test you need is a simple blood test for ACE, 25-D and 1,25-D. The treatment for sarcoidosis is the same no matter what organ of your body it affects-get your D-levels under control and eliminate the offending organisms.

Meg

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Bevin Black (---.vianet.ca)
Date:   03-10-03 19:43

Trevor, Just checking in. I was diagnosed with sarcoid of the heart in 1996. I had catheder oblation to repair superventricular fribulation. Prednisone took care of heart block while I was on it. While waiting for a pacemaker, I discovered that Corn was my trigger for sarcoid. Corn was in 80% of the foods and drugs that I ate. I no longer go to doctors, and take only the drug Celebrex. (It seems to have helped my heart, as well as my aches) I have not had my mitrial valve checked since they told me "I was a very sick man" about 3 years ago. I have gotten about 90% of my strength back, since quitting corn. My heart will start to jump around within 12 hours of accidently ingesting a corn product now. I've written this on this web site before, and on others. This took me many years to figure out, but no Doctor has listened to me yet. I'll just check in, once in a while, to tell you that I'm still very alive. I hope someone studies this sometime, because they all seem hung up on someone's theory that sarcoid is inhailed. Bevin Black

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   03-10-03 20:00

Hi Bevin,
I am certainly glad that you are alive, and basically well. Sarcodiosis is that sort of disease - it can be conquered.

Have you had your D-Metabolites measured yet? The results will give you a pretty good basis to plan how to go forward from here so as to retain your health. Without that data you are really likely to miss something quite important.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Helen Turner (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   03-24-03 14:55

Hello
My name is Helen I was diagnosed with Cardiac Sarc in 1987 following repeated bouts of V.T. and also Bradicardia Many times having to be defibbed into normal rhythm I had Angiograms Gallium Scan MRI scans and ended up with open Heart Cardiac Resection and Biopsy. I had 2 years of Prednisone treatment which caused many many side effects and was fitted with pacemaker which has been changed now 3 times I am also on Beta blockers and ACE inhibitors I can do almost anything that I want these days. I do get a little short of breath and suffer night time leg cramps but I think that is a small price to pay for being alive and able to enjoy the wonderful delights of our Grandchildren I am now 55 and hope to be an old lady. I hope that this brings some hope to some of you

Helen.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   03-25-03 13:16

Helen,
It is wonderful that you are happy with 'the hand' that fate has dealt you.

It really has been very hard for those of us that were diagnosed some time ago. I was given 18 months to live (stage IV) in 1978, and, at times, it has been very hard to hold on until the cure came along.

Now that the cure is here we really need to focus not on just 'extending' our lives, but on returning them to normal. Personally, I have never felt better, and I know my body is working better than it ever did before. The antibiotic and ARB treatments that you will read about on SarcInfo will allow you to plan to enjoy your great-grandkids too..

Welcome to sarcinfo,
..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Helen Turner (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   03-31-03 13:02

I know that feeling Trevor, after my surgery I was told they had no idea what my prognosis was I would certainly recover from the surgery but as for the Sarc in my heart no-one had any idea how it would act My Surgeon even told me he had only ever seen it at the same stage in a post mortem.
That's why i consider myself very fortunate to be alive. I have sent you e-mail regarding my latest problems hope that is o.k.

Helen

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-03-03 14:17

What do I need to read on this website to understand the following 2 statements that Trevor wrote?


"Now that the cure is here we really need to focus not on just 'extending' our lives, but on returning them to normal."

"The antibiotic and ARB treatments that you will read about on SarcInfo..."

Thanx,

-Tom Rogers

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-03-03 15:33

Tom,
You should start by reading the "Patient Tutorials" at the top left of this page, followed by the "Papers For Physicians" at top right, if you are familiar with medicine.

Then you should read through many of the 4,890 messages that have been written here over the last few years. The more messages you read, the greater the depth of understanding you are likely to reach. These messages were written during the time that "the cure" was evolving.

Actually, for that matter, it still is evolving

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-04-03 11:30

I am told by my pulm doc that I have a mild case of sarc but it is confirmed by mediastinoscopy biopsy of lymph node. (Jan 31, 2003)

My question is, does sarcoid spread like cancer spreads? If so, (my doc said it doesn't spread btw), how do I know if it goes to my heart or my brain?

Obviously, this happening is very scary.

Thanx,

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-04-03 11:44

Tom,
sarcoidosis no longer has to be "scary". The inflammation is due to CWD bacteria, and it will spread as the bacteria spread. A proportion of patients manage to eliminate the bacteria without any help, but the rest of us have to use the techniques explained in the tutorials at the top left and top right of this page.

Welcome to SarcInfo
.Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-04-03 13:26

Thanx Trevor, but how do I know if it goes to my heart or brain? Are there certain symptoms to look out for? Are there tests I can have done to check?

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-04-03 13:45

Tom,
As a generalization, it doesn't matter where the inflammation is, it gets fixed the same way.

An honest doctor will tell you that most cardiac sarcoidosis is diagnosed upon autopsy. However, you should notice cardiac discomfort before it becomes a major problem.

Neurosarc is just normal sarc where the bugs have found some brain tissue to live in. And eye sarc and lung sarc and all the rest. Just fix it, Tom. If you wait until it can be diagnosed, with CAT scans and the like, it will be a lot harder, and take a lot longer, to kill off all the bugs...

..Trevor...

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-04-03 16:25

So is all sarcoidosis from the CWD bacteria? My doc told me no one knows the cause.

According to the info presented on this site, I should start a regimen of Benicar, Minocin and reducing vitamin D? How do I get my doc to do this? He told me to stay off the Internet because most of the info there is just plain wrong.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-04-03 18:01

Tom,
I really can't be expected to answer for your Doc. He/she can read the papers Liz and I have written on the issue of bacterial pathogenesis, and I would welcome any data that he/she is able to present that might indicate that we are wrong

First you need to get an idea of where your D metabolites are. If your 1,25-D is too high then you need to be more careful of herxheimer. Your D-Ratio will also help keep track of the progress of your therapy. You also need to cut all Vitamin D out of your diet, and out of any medications, at least until you achieve remission.

Then you need to get an angiotensin blockade in place. This lowers your 1,25-D and allows the antibiotic to penetrate the tissues better. The final step is to start using an antibiotic that is capable of killing the CWD bacteria. Your doc can find the dosing info he needs in the paper (top right on this page) "Minocycline Dosing Issues".

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Margo (---.adsl.duke.edu)
Date:   04-04-03 18:05

Tom

The Internet can provide lots of information. Just like a library or a newstand, some of the information is good, some is not. We must all, always, be informed consumers of information. (I like to be informed, so I could not work with a doctor who told me to stay off the Internet. In fact, I have read more medical research on sarcoid which I found through searches on the Internet than most of the doctors we see.)

When a site offers products for sale for various medical conditions, one should be skeptical, because of the obvious conflicts of interest.

At this site, there are links to medical articles that support the approach to treatment. And, no one is selling anything.

By gradually reading this site, starting with the tutorials, reading some of the threads, then going to links to articles in medical journals, you will see the scientific basis to the approach here. As a very important addition, the proposed treatment for sarcoid involves very safe medications, unlike the standard treatments for sarcoid.

I read a great deal on the site. Then, we worked at reducing exposure to vitamin D (from sunlight, foods, and supplements) - this is something you can do without involving the doctor. The vitamin D levels were tested. Symptoms decreased a great deal when we reduced exposure to vitamin D. (The patient is a family member, not myself.)

Then, we found a doctor who would support us in the next step. We began using ARBs. Another big improvement in symptoms! After about two weeks, low-dose minocycline was added. It is too early to evaluate the minocycline regimen, although, just as with the other steps in this treatment, the symptoms were as predicted (mild herxheimer).
Soon, the vitamin d levels will be measured again.

There is a thread about how to find a doctor who will do this. Convincing your doctor will be easier if you understand the protocol, and are knowledgeable about the research.

Margo

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-04-03 18:28

Thank you both for your input. I will definitely take these papers to my doc and see if I can't get this taken care of before it gets out of hand.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction!

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen (65.121.96.---)
Date:   04-05-03 16:56

Tom,

Just some information - my sarcoidosis is seemingly "extrapulmonary", or not in the lungs....though it seems I have a different illness than those with pulmonary sarcoidosis (95% in the "accepted" literature), I can assure you that I consider it just sarcoidosis. I am primarily affected in my heart, and have definite neuro symptoms - along with many other body systems affected!

I don't mean to confuse you - my point is that sarcoidosis can, and does, affect us wherever the inflammation strikes!!! It is all worsened by the same thing (CWD bacteria and excess vitamin D metabolites), and is all helped by reducing the vitamin D and taking Minocin and Benicar. People tell me how scary it must be to have it in my heart - but knowing what it is and how to fix it really makes me feel pretty good! So basically, what we want to do is not spend so much time isolating what is affected, as concentrating on fixing it!!! The medications Minocin and Benicar are helping ALL my symptoms, whether it is chest pain or gastrointestinal irritation. If you have chest pain, by all means, you should have it checked out - but my point is that it is easier to treat all the symptoms at this point, than to worry about what it will affect next...

Just a mention about physicians - my GP has always encouraged me to search the internet and research to find more and better information than the standard "prednisone will treat it" guidelines. I have seen many specialists - all pretty closed minded to any variation, both in my symptoms and in treatment; and I am very fortunate to have found a doc who is open to new information - and is definitely encouraged by my improvement!!! IMO, any worthwhile doctor will be encouraged by your willingness to participate in your illness and treatment, and to find better treatment.

Best of luck,

Kathy in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Helen Turner (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   04-06-03 14:43

Hi Kathy

Just like you I have Heart sarcoid . Until I found this site I had no idea that all my other symptoms i.e. Sinus blockages, muscle and Joint pains ,headaches ,insomnia ,vertigo, were all connected to the sarcoidI now know that I need to reduce my intake of vitamin D I only ever had dealings with Cardiologist or G.P. My sarcoid was diagnosed in 1987 when I had Surgery for what was thought to be either an anurism or Cancer, it turned out to be Sarcoidosis. I then had Prednisone treatment for 2years and had a pacemaker fitted to keep my heart rhythm correct.
All the other symptoms have followed on. I am now going to get either G.P. or Cardiologist to look at Trevors papers and try and get on ARB and Antibiotics I am hopefull that I can soon look forward to being pain free.


Keep Smiling ,were both lucky to be alive

Helen.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.biz.rr.com)
Date:   04-23-03 13:52

Hello, I finally had my appointment with my second pulmonolgist today. I shared with him, the info on this website. He seemed interested, and he encouraged me to research the web for info on Sarc. He said he doesn't do ACE levels because we already know they will be elevated and they won't tell him much. He only did a calcium and Vit D check along with metabolites.

He looked at my previous Chest XRays and CT scans, and said it was minimal. When I told him I had breathing issues since Fall of 2000, then how I have had PACs episodes, he ordered PFTs and ECHO. As the appointment went on, he was concerned I might have cardiac involvment. He was just going to give me inhaled steroids and Albuterol but by the end of the appointment, he gave me a script for 20mg Prednisone 3x day, and some drug that prevents bone loss.

My first pulmonologist said I should just live a normal life, like nothing is wrong with me, then I get to this doc who scared the heck out of me, saying I may have cardiac involvement. Who the heck do I believe and trust?

To top that off, I had some palpitations after lunch today, so I was thinking "this is it".

This is not how I want to live, being scared all the time. I shared with him the info on this website, and he said that Myocin and ARBs would be a "last line of treatment", and suggested I start on 20mg Prednisone 3x day.

I'm scared over this Prednisone, yet, if there is cardiac involvment, I want to do something to take care of it.

Here's to hoping someone can give me some advice on what to do. I get an Echo and PFTs tomorrow.

Thanx,

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Helen Turner (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   04-23-03 14:16

Tom

I have Cardiac Sarcoid Diagnosed in Biopsy in 1987 I also had 20mg Prednisolone 3xday but no bone saving drug I now have terrible back problems. For your own sake try and get it lowered. My symptoms in the begining were bouts of Ventricular Tachicardia (very fast heart) and fibrilation I had to be de-fibbed back into sinus rhythm I now take 360mg daily Beta Blocker and am fitted with pacemaker I do fine with this. I still have Sarc problems and I have just had the blood tests and hope to start on Trevors programme after I have had back op on the 6th May. Please try not to live in fear I am sure that you, like me can get through this hard time I think it is not knowing for sure once you do you will cope.

Please Keep smiling.


Helen.T

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   04-23-03 14:31

Tom,

Nobody can tell you what to do. The way things are right now, doctors are not prosecuted for giving patients prednisone, and doctors ARE afraid that someone will sue them if a patient has symptoms that something sarcoid-related is happening to their heart and they don't do something. Writing a prescription for prednisone is something a doctor's malpractice underwriter will still likely find the standard or acceptable treatment.

The best that you can do is educate yourself and decide what you want to do and what treatment you are willing to accept. Prednisone is not a cure and it brings its own set of problems, as you probably know. Do a search on any search engine to see for yourself, or read some to the links at the bottom of the page. Lots of folks on SarcInfo.com have had heart palpitations, arrhythmias, chest pain and other symptoms. Some of us are progressing with the special protocol of antibiotics and angiotensin receptor blocking drugs. We are setting a new trend.

When you get the results of your vitamin D metabolite tests in a few days, you should have a better picture of what is going on. Have you been spending much time in sunlight the past couple of weeks? If your 1,25-D is abnormally high, that can lead to changes in the heart rhythm.

If you have any questions or want direction to scientific research, just ask.

Belinda

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: wendy (---.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-23-03 15:21

Tom - I have cardiac sarcoid as diagnosed by a stress echo cardio and thallium scans. It was weird seeing these tiny white dots in the lining of my heart near my mitrol valve. I am fine now. Frankly, the most critical point and difficult time was dealing with very high levels of Vit D after being in Mauii for two weeks in the sun! I had tremendous heart arrythmias, chest pressure and sharp pains. I also was waking with night sweats. I was unable to sleep laying down because the pain in my chest/heart area was too severe. So, I "slept" sitting up...for weeks.

I too was confronted with the prednisone issue. I decided to start on prednisone AND the antibiotic treatment that is described in many of the papers and discussions on this web site. I started with 20mg of prednisone per day. I also completely altered my diet and ate nothing with either Vit D or calcium in it for months. I am now back on calcium, but will never eat Vit D food again (until I am totally in remission...as Vit D foods send my heart into spasms). There is a good list that Belinda and others have put together of the Vit D rich foods. Also, I am a label reading queen...nothing passes my lips until I've read the label.

Getting my Vit D down has helped stablize my heart. I've been on this regime for three months now. I also have been a hermit all winter, staying completely out of the sun.

Recently I began weaning myself off of the prednisone as I do not feel it is benefitting me. GOING OFF HAS BEEN A KILLER. So, think very carefully about starting. Once you begin it is very difficult getting off. I am now at 10mg daily. It has taken me three weeks to stablize again. My next step will be to go to 10mg every other day and do the antibiotics (as recommended several places in this web site) every other day...to alternate the drugs so that they are not working against each other.

Perhaps your dr. would be willing to compromise in this way?

Best of luck...Cardiac sarc is terrifying. I can relate to that. But getting my Vit D under control has improved my heart symptoms tremendously!

Wendy

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-23-03 17:42

Wendy,

How long have you had cardiac sarc?

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-23-03 17:57

Helen, Belinda, and Wendy:

Thanx for your comments. First, it is good to know that with cardiac sarc, you still can live a long life. From what I read, you die quickly. Second, I will be spending alot of time in prayer the next few days to decide what to do about the Prednisone. (If I start it, it will be on Sunday morning)

I get my Echo tomorrow, if that looks normal, I think I will NOT start the Prednisone (how do I tell this doc I don't want it? I next see him June 3)

Also, I went to get the price of the script for Pred today, and the Pharmacist said he could not fill it cause the doc left the # off. Could this be a message from God that I should not take it?

I have not had arrythmias (I have had two Event Monitors) only palpitations were found (Pre-Atrial Contractions). Both my family doc and Cardiologist said this is totally benign. When I have episodes of these PACs, I usually get about 5-9 per minute for 1-3 hours (avg). One time they lasted 8 hours. Also, I told new pulm doc that if I take a Xanax, they go away. So I'm not sure where this new pulm doc has come up with thinking this is sarc related.

It is amazing what a tremendous help and comfort it is to know that I can talk to people about this, that understand. I pray for everyone on this website for complete and utter healing. Thanx again!

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-23-03 18:09

Tom,
Print out this piece I wrote about Cardiac Sarc on CHEST Journal and give it to Doc. It explains how cardiac sarc is nothing special, it just represents progression of the sarc into the heart muscles as the microbes spread throughout your body. As Wendy found, it's severity can be dealt with by not taking in ANY Vit D, and then by killing the bugs with minocycline or doxycycline. Both are antibiotics that your physician should feel very comfortable about prescribing, much safer than prednisone.

Your Blood Pressure and arrhythmia should come under control soon after Doc puts you on 40mg of Benicar every 8 hours, as outlined in the "New Treatments emerge..." paper at top right of this page.

..Trevor..
ps: By the Way, there is no drug on earth that can stop prednisone leaching away your skeleton at the doses your Doc is contemplating. Also, the new bisphosphonates are starting to be recognized as relatively risky in Sarcoid patients.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Meg (---.188.232.59.euc.wi.charter.com)
Date:   04-23-03 18:58

Tom,

I'm sorry your doctor frightened you. Some years ago, I felt palpitations too and had an EKG that confirmed premature atrial contractions (PACs) which are benign but sure can feel scary. I'm glad I wasn't diagnosed with sarcoidosis at the time because who knows what would have been ordered. The simplest of measures, however, solved this problem for me. I was drinking too much coffee! I thought of that when you said that Xanax, a tranquilizer, made them go away. This could be 'much ado about nothing'.

Meg

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-23-03 19:05

Tom,
I had assumed that you had read the SarcInfo discussion thread about the dangers of Avascular Necrosis to folks who take Prednisone at 60mg daily. If you haven't read about this new International Study then Click Here to access it.

It is a good idea to click on the "Older Messages" link at the top of the subject listing on SarcInfo. We have been through a lot of hard work to get to the cure, and sometimes the important basic stuff gets lost into the mists of time.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: wendy (---.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-24-03 08:53

Tom -

I am not sure how "long" I have had cardiac sarcoid. I was initially diagnosed with ocular sarciod (in my right eye) four years ago...but the reality is this process of hyper active immune system must have been an underlying possibility and a trigger (which I think in retrospect was my difficult preganancy and birth of my son in conjunction with horrible work stress/relationship problems and unrelenting yeast infections) finally resulted in it presenting in my right eye.

The heart arrythmias, chest pain, chest pressure (which are distinct sensations) have been going on for two years. Some of this now I realize was probably Vit D surges (not Herxheimer reaction as I was not yet in treatment, but reactions to a great deal of sun or digestion of Vit D rich foods). I have been in the Emergency Room four times in the last year, thinking (as did the nurse on the phone) that I was having a heart attack (including left arm tingling, numb hands, and a feeling like a big gorilla was sitting on my chest, rapid heart beats, and shooting random pain). This could last for days or hours (hence my belief that some of it may have been Vit D related).

The cardiac sarc was not diagnosed with a resting Echo. All Emergency room tests (including blood tests, EKG, holter monitor, etc) were normal. The diagnosis came from a STRESS Echo as a result of a thallium scan which showed hardening of a specific area in my heart. The cardiologist felt the thallium scan was innaccurate, but then had to eat his words after the stress echo! The distinction between stress vs. resting Echos may not be important for your diagnosis, but it was for mine. As I understand (and my knowledge is limited) my cardiac sarc has not yet impacted function.

Good luck figuring out whether to take prednisone. It was a very difficult decision for me, as Trevor can attest. The poor guy got a hundred frantic emails from me as I went through the process! I am not unhappy that I did go on prednisone as I always saw it as a short term way of getting the inflammation under control and for peace of mind. However, I was disappointed to learn that it takes months before the prednisone "benefits" actually occur. For me, the chest pain, pressure, arrythmias, and the like stopped once my Vit D got down. I started with Vit D levels of 165 (with high normal being 62) for the 1,25 and 15 for the 25 serum tests. So, I was very toxic. And, this was a result of two weeks in Mauii (sunning shamelessly...something I will NEVER do again).

You will figure this out...it's scary diagnosing and fighting with an "established" medical system that does not have all the answers. You will decide the right thing. Go with your guts.

Best of luck!

Wendy

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: wendy (---.stcgpa.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-24-03 09:29

Tom - Sorry to post again, but I just thought of something else...

The docs can never make a definative diagnosis of sarcoid without a biopsy (and even then there are other diseases, including fungals, that present with granulomas)... Open heart surgery for biopsy is radical treatment and unwarranted in my case. So, for me (likely you) it will be a process of ellimination.

The visual for my diagnosis consisted of visible white dots the doctor referred to as "scar tissue" within the wall lining in my heart near the mitrol valve. He could not be definative about whether it was "active" or "old" scar tissue. His main goal was to assess location and function. My "function" was within accepted normal range or what I like to think of as not needing intervention, as normal is so variable between individuals. Cardiac sarcoid scares doctors too, so if you do have visible scarring be prepared for them to want to put you on "aggressive" therapy. They discussed 60 - 80mg of prednisone for me. I held firm at "no prednisone" for two months, then finally (for reasons I described earlier) went on 15mg. I am now, gratefully, down to 10mg. The chest pain returned as I decreased the dosage to 10mg (over a three week period...to let you know how long it takes coming off, I reduced my daily dosage by 1.5mg per week), but the pain/pressure were more mild (I could sleep laying down and didn't have night sweats, as I did when I tried to go from 20mg directly to 10mg) because my VIt D was more under control. Depression has been my main complaint and irritability (my poor family).

My goal is to take 10mg every other day and minocycline on the opposite days, as I found taking them together very difficult. I obviously will also continue to strictly have NO added Vit D and limited sun exposure.

Anyway, best wishes

wendy

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-24-03 10:56

Wendy:

Your heart arrythmias, were they tachycardia, bradycardia or PACs/PVCs?

I had a resting Echo today - all looked perfect. According to info I found on web, Cleveland Clinic stated that "Sarcoidosis of the heart is almost always shows up on the echo as a decrease in the ejection fraction and a characteristic echocardiographic filling pattern. It in general does not cause PVCs."

So I was releived today that my echo, though not a stress echo, was perfect.

PFTs today were great as well. I don't have symptoms that interfere majorly with my day to day living, so maybe I will just take the wait and see approach.

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: John Power (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   04-24-03 15:15

Trevor,
I was diagnosed withn sarcoid in nov 2002 following transbracheal lung biopsy. bad chest x-ray and ct scan led to biopsy. At the time I was suffering with bouts of bradycardia with pulse rates down int the 30's and 40's as well as elevted ACE levels. Prednisone 60mg per da was initiated and within 1 month bradycardia wa s alleviated however palpitations still exist atested to by holter monitoring and subsequent echocardiograms. pred has since been weaned to 20mg per day and remainig wean wil b e slow accoring to pulm doc. i currently take diovan and will ve discussing with docs testing of vit d levels and minocin tx . is it advisable to start minoci while weaning off pred or should one wait to get off pres first. i am somewht concerned about the JH reaction that may occur if minocin can be started at this time. meantime i am eliminating vit d to the best extent i can from diet af limiting sun exposure.
thanks for info for even the docs admit there is very little knowledge out there.
thanks again for research and info. wll talk soo after next cardio visit.

John

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Helen Turner (---.cache.pol.co.uk)
Date:   04-24-03 15:38

Tom

I have a feeling that my diagnosis came about by accident because when I went to the operating theatre I was told that I had either an aneurism or a tumour in the left ventrical this had shown on a Gallium Scan (remember this is 16 years ago) when I woke in intensive care the surgeon asked if I could sign a release form because they had filmed the op and wanted to use it for teaching purposes. He then told me what they found was sarcoidosis and he had only ever seen this in a post mortem I was terrified, as was my family' no-one in the Hospital knew what the prognosis was It was just a case of High prednisilone and wait and see!!! I was told that they had taken a section of the ventrical for biopsy to be sent to Dr Fleming at Papworth Hospital he was doing some study on Cardiac Sarc. I really hope that you or anyone else ever has to go through anything like this It seems from reading the posts here that other ways of diagnosing Heart Sarc are being found.

Take care and keep strong.

Helen.T

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Kathleen Stuart (65.121.96.---)
Date:   04-24-03 17:00

Tom -

Just another "cardiac" weighing in - my symptoms since the beginning have been chest pain and shortness of breath; chest pain always in the same place - for almost 4 years now. The only test at the beginning that was positive was a stress thallium - which was positive both EKG-wise and radiologically. Other than that, my echo was fairly normal; subsequent EKG's were fairly normal (with some sinus arrhythmia) and mostly tachycardia.

I have been declared fit by multiple cardiologists, yet I still have chest pain, SOB and profound fatigue. My latest echo, almost a year ago, showed pulm hypertension and an enlarged left atrium - again, declared normal by the "experts" that be. I was told cardiac sarcoidosis was very rare, and therefore it was "unlikely" that I would have it. I was also told that it would affect ventricular rhythms, so again, I "probably" didn't have it.

My ACE was in the 80's, and my c-reactive protein has been elevated during the entire time - a definite sign of inflammation. I am currently taking beta-blockers for my heart symptoms, and the Minocin and Benicar regimen recommended in this site - and I am feeling much, much better.

First, I think that "cardiac" sarcoidosis is much more prevelant than the "experts" think - as Trevor notes, it is an inflammatory response, and obviously, from these multiple posts, occurs in more patients than "they" think. (I note "cardiac" because I agree with Trevor that sarcoidosis is sarcoidosis is sarcoidosis (to shoplift a phrase) and symptoms appear everywhere, thereby eliminating the need for "pulmonary" and "extrapumonary" monikers - and hopefully, eliminating the ever-present "ABNORMAL" sarcoidosis!!!)

Second, I personally begged for prednisone three years ago - I have a family history of sarcoidosis, and at the time, it was the only treatment we knew of...my doc agreed, and gave me high dose (60 mg) for several months. If I only knew then, what I know now....and I know my doc feels this way...he is concerned that the steroids I took have given me damage that will last the rest of my life. I think the hardest thing was going off of them - the excrutiatingly slow decrease (which is medically necessary, as some body systems shut down and need the opportunity to kick back in; it also can affect you mentally) - and the not feeling any better as the dose got lower, and not feeling any better once I was totally off of them. I understand now why that happened - but it was very difficult to go through.

As Belinda stated, the decision of what treatment to pursue is completely yours. I wanted to share my experience, and that while I felt somewhat better on prednisone, the drug has an effect that is like a "high", and there is no evidence that it actually medically helped me, and evidence that it did hurt me...As she suggested, doing your own homework and looking at all the alternatives will help you decide on a treatment you are most comfortable with.

Best of luck and take care,

Kathleen in Wyoming

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.biz.rr.com)
Date:   04-25-03 13:24

Does anyone know the percent of people with Cardiac Sarc that die of Sudden Cardiac Arrest? (Obviously this is a worse case scenario from what I have read, but have not found any numbers)

Thanx

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-25-03 13:46

Tom,
The info you need is in this study report

I sense that you are very worried about cardiac problems. Please understand that Cardiac symptoms are the easiest to control, and respond very well to ARB and 1,25-D level control, and, ultimately to antibiotic therapies. Every sarc patient needs to be careful, but worrying unnecessarily is only going to make things worse. Now that we know how to do it, you should focus on curing your sarcoid inflammation, and the cardiac problems will disappear with it.

..Trevor..
ps: Ypu might also be interested in reading this piece I wrote for CHEST about cardiac complications.

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Freddie (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   04-26-03 07:55

Hi Tom & Trevor

I am a 63 year old white male with sarcoidosis. I have had it since Aug 1972 but was not diagnosed until Feb 1982. I have sarcoidosis in several organs. I have it in the heart. I wanted to say something about the prognoses of cardio sarc. I read in a medical book from Marshall University that 4 out of 6 would die a sudden death. I always told my family doctor that I was going to be one of the 2 that lived. That was back in the 1980's. I had 4 by passes March 20, 2001 and a pacemaker put in Nov 8, 1995. Also Jan 20, 2003 I had to have a cardioversion done. Then my pacemaker went bad and had it replaces on Feb 27, 2003.

Your friend in sarcoidosis
Freddie

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-26-03 08:08

Freddie,
Welcome to SarcInfo.com. Many of us here have been pretty seriously ill, but we have survived, and are now healing.

Whatever sustained us to this point is now less important than the opportunity to regain our health. Please read the tutorials the the top of the page and ask questions if you don't understand anything. Sarcoid Inflammation can now be cured, whichever organs or muscles the microbes might be hiding within. But it can't be done overnight, and you will need a caring Doc to work with you in order to implement the therapy. Welcome, Freddie, and relaaaax... you have already proven you are a survivor...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Freddie (---.ipt.aol.com)
Date:   04-26-03 11:13

Hi Trevor

This is Freddie. I think you have great and correct information at this site. Things in your informatin goes a long with my history. When I was born back Sept 1, 1939 I was on mother's milk but developed Ricketts. Then I was exposed to TB two times, once in 1953 when my sister had TM meningitis. Then in 1968 I was in the National Guard I let a budy drink from my water can. When we got back from sumer camp that year he had TB. But to this day I have never tested positive for TB. Also on the sun light I had read in 1982 in some of the doctor's books that I could fine that you should stay out of the sun light due to the "D". Once I was invited to a med school near Dayton, Oh to give a talk to student doctors on sarcoidosis. But I did not get to go because something else came at the school and it had to be cancelled. The PA bagged me to make a vidio tape to send to them but I was working at the time and did get to go.

My blockage may be due to the sarcoidosis because right after I had mine done ( I had them done at the Cleveland Clinic) Cleveland Clinic came out with a report about blockage in people with good fat readings and still had blockages were due to the infammation in the blood. So I fit that too.

Your friend in sarcoidosis
Freddie

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-26-03 13:18

I apologize to all for my over-reaction to "possible" cardiac sarc. My reaction stems from the doc telling me to "take 60mg of Prednisone cause your palpitations suggest to me (without any testing) that you may have cardiac involvement", reading about all cases of cardiac sarc usually end up in sudden death within 2 years, and none of my three docs want to even do the basic blood tests requested on this site.

I have been frustrated and worried, and I agree - most likely without just cause to be worried. I will do my best to keep positive here from now on. (This is most likely why I have palpitations (PACs), the anxiety I allow myself to generate.)

Sorry again to all.

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   04-26-03 17:00

Tom,
I have no doubt that high dose corticosteroid therapy that is so often prescribed by physicians faced by Cardiac Sarc contributes to the poor prognosis for the patients.

I have one of the best Docs, and I recall a big argument I had with him the time he first heard a heart defect through his stethoscope. But he listened to me, and suggested I could try Diovan (an ARB) and see if it helped stave off the pred a little longer. And the rest is history...

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: Tom Rogers (---.twcny.rr.com)
Date:   04-28-03 17:33

Trevor Wrote:

"In fact, the ARBs were first prescribed for me in 1999 because some early signs of cardiac sarc involvement had appeared."

Trevor, what were your early signs of cardiac sarc involvement? I'm trying to figure out if my new Pulm Doc is correct in his "guess" about me.

Thank you,

-Tom

 
 Re: Heart Sarcoid
Author: