Sarcoidosis Answers for Physicians, Nurses and Patients

Here at SarcInfo, between 2002 and 2004, we identified the cause of Sarcoidosis, and successfully trialled a curative antimicrobial therapy. During 2005 and 2006 the US FDA designated the antibiotics Clindamycin and Minocycline as Orphan Products in the treatment of Sarcoidosis, and studies are ongoing elsewhere.

For information about this breakthrough, please post your questions at the current study-site, or the Autoimmunity Research Foundation.
 
This archive of the historic study is maintained by volunteers from the Foundation. The material here provides useful background, but much of it is now out-of-date.

** Patient Tutorials **

 Click here to read "WHY DID I GET SARCOIDOSIS? WHY ME? 

  Click here to read "REMISSION IN SARCOIDOSIS"  

 How a Pathologist can see Bacteria causing Sarcoidosis 

"How does Doctor measure my ACE, and my D-metabolites?"

 Weaning from Prednisone

 Protecting your eyes in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Hypervitaminosis D Symptoms    The SarcInfo F.A.Q.

Medical Abbreviations          CBC Radio Show

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

 

** Papers for Physicians **

Antibacterial Therapy induces Remission 

Implications for Autoimmune Disease 
(Here is Fulltext preprint)

Antibacterial mechanisms for ARBs 

Antibiotics in Sarcoidosis- The 1st Year 

Rationale for abx in Sarcoidosis 

1,25-D and Angiotensin II

"New Treatments Emerge.."

Jarisch-Herxheimer in Sarcoidosis

Vit.D and Calcium in Sarcoidosis

Protocol Phase 1-First 3 months

The NIH ACCESS Study finds Sarcoidosis does not go away - Click here to see, and print, the brochure


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 Neurosarcoidosis, pain - there is a simple answer
Author: Admin (---.gtecablemodem.com)
Date:   03-07-02 04:50

Most sarcoidosis patients have experienced symptoms that seem to be related to the Central Nervous System (CNS) or the brain. These include fatigue, irritibility, insomnia, hyperactivity, loss of memory, inability to focus, mild paranoia, and pains that defy description.

There is very little about this in the medical literature. Indeed, several leading pulmonologists have written to me saying that these symptoms have nothing to do with Sarcoidosis.

And maybe they are right.
After all, Sarcoidosis is defined as the biopsied presence of non-caseating granuloma. Neurosarcoidosis is the presence of these granuloma in a position (such as compressing the spinal cord) where they can do real physical harm to the CNS. This can be easily seen on a CAT scan or MRI. So, if the scanners can't see any physical damage in our bodies, maybe there is nothing physically wrong, maybe sarcoidosis is not the correct name for what we are really suffering from. Maybe the sarcoid is the result of something else, something else without a name...

Sarcoidosis (the actual inflammation and scar tissue) is often not the limiting factor in our lives. I know some Sarcoidosis patients that are seriously ill, in wheelchairs, but most of us, the ones still trying to live an active life and deal with technologies like computers and the Internet, seem to suffer most from dealing with effects of the neuroses and psychoses listed above. We can usually cope with our reduced lung capacity, and the other physical effects of this disease that is called "sarcoidosis". But we cannot live a 'normal' lifestyle while our brains misbehave so badly.

I had most of these 'brain' symptoms long before my lungs 'caught' sarcoidosis. I can remember standing on the playing field at high school as my mind drifted away into some trance, unaware that I was placing the sleeve of my expensive new school uniform in the exhaust of an air compressor and watching it burn. It took the pain of searing skin to wake me out of this psychosis. And this was long before any x-Ray manifestation of any disease were apparent.

After I was diagnosed with Sarcoidosis I was very lucky. I was studying in a research hospital, with access to the best minds and libraries 'in the business'. My research colleagues included endocrinologists, psychologists, internal medicine specialists, pathologists, and surgeons. I had their advice to draw on, as well as that of the pulmonologists (who were also excellent, I might add).

I was not put on all the usual medications. I had a short round of Prednisone (which mullified the pain and enhanced the neuroses but did nothing for the inflammation), but only for a month or so. Then the endocrinologists stepped in and said - "no more - no more medications until you understand exactly what you are trying to achieve with these meds. "Forget the X-Ray shadowing - it is in the past - concentrate on leading a productive lifestyle". Best advice I ever had, at any price (and it was free

You know, for all my life, medications have just not worked right in my body! In the army they tried to control the vomiting with Stemetil. It just made the vomiting worse. In my first biopsy the epinephrine in the local anaesthetic made the anaesthesia inneffective.

There is something fundamentally different with the way my system works, maybe the same thing that caused my lungs to form those 'non-caseating granuloma' back in 1974.

Even pain itself is just a sensation. It is something our brain tells us is happening. We can use pain killers that block the transmission of those pain signals to our brains, and others that modify the way that our brains deal with those pain signals (see "Pain Management" link below).

For most of us, the cause of these "wierd sensations" is that the hormone 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin-D which is produced in our granuloma as a result of the inflammation, is poorly regulated. It surges both low and high, but usually gives the most trouble when it is high. Every sarc patient should get the value of this hormone and its precursor tested(Click here for more info). The individual values, and their ratio, will tell you a lot about the amount of inflammation and what it is doing to your brain. It is such a simple solution- why have we had to suffer so long?

This is all "easy for me to say". I am lucky - the magic bullet has come along that has controlled my brain, and it seems no worse for all those years of wear

But what do you think? Have you seen drugs that don't do what they are supposed to do for you? What do you think about the origin of your pain?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   03-14-02 18:21

Firstly I want to say thanks to Trevor for this new notice board, it makes this disease so much easier to cope with when we have people we can talk about it with.
My Story: After years of suffering with Pneumonia, Glandular Fever, Chest Infection after Chest Infection, Pluracy & Migraines, I was finally diagnosed in July 2000 with Sarc after 3 months in hospital, every test known to man & being told that I should find a good Psychiatrist. The diagnoses came via a Mediostenoscopy of my lungs.
I was given a short course of Prednisone (6 Weeks) during which I could not drag myself out of bed, had constant & severe nausea & could not even hold down water. An IV drip kept me hydrated.
Since that time I have had several episodes of Blackouts, Blurred Vision, Speech Dysphasia (i can't remember how to talk or what words even sound like), Numbness in my hands & legs & of course headaches. I was given an MRI at the end of 2000 which showed nothing on my brain. I am also on a waiting list to see another Neurologist. I don't know whether I also have NeuroSarc as well as the Pulmonary but as with the Pulmonary i just want an answer to stop me going insane.
I have not been back on the Prednisone due to the fact that it appears to be a severe intolerance that I have to it & that I don't wish to take on the other side effects involved. I am on MS Conten (slow release Morphine Tablets) for the pain, Anti Inflammatories, Anti Depressants & General Pain Killers.
Thanks for the chance to share my story. Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Becky (---.tampabay.rr.com)
Date:   03-15-02 05:59

Until a couple of years ago, my pain associated with sarcoid was infrequent and more bearable. I would have episodic wrist/hand, and feet pain. Now, this pain is more frequent and has become so bad that I wake up at night with it. Then for no reason, the pain is gone and I'm grateful but wondering when it will come back at me again. I have experienced other types of pain that may or may not be related to (R/T) the sarcoidosis...the verdict is still out on that. What I do know is that this disease is enough to contend with, without having to stress over whether the medical provider "believes" the pain is real. As a nurse, I'm disappointed that the patient (pt) has to practically plead for help to be taken seriously. The medical establishment swings from one end of the spectrum where the pt gets bombarded with meds to the other end where the pt suffers needlessly. Medical schools need to spend more time educating their students in the area of pain management. Nurses are more sensitive to this area because (B/C) first of all they are taught this in school and they are at the bedside actually seeing 24/7 what the pt is going through. Nurse's are taught that they are the pt's advocate in every area including pain management. As a nurse I have witnessed too the medical view that the pt is a "complainer", "wants drugs", etc...Since sarcoidosis can present in so many ways, it's my viewpoint that it is frustrating for the practitioners B/C they are looking for objective data via lab,radiological, and other tests as the barometer of wellness. When these tests are within normal limits (WNL), the pt can automatically fall under the "there's nothing wrong with you" catagory. There's too much unknown about this disease for that kind of thinking. One thing for certain, I've become a better nurse B/C of my own experience with sarcoidosis. I have become even more sensitive to my pt's needs and have learned that compassion, empathy, and the ability to really listen, are some of the most important tools I can offer.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Janice Brahm (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   04-08-02 07:06

I recently was put on Modafinil/Provigil to relieve the intense fatigue I suffer as a sarcoid patient. I was hopeful but unfortunately it did not work for me. I am unable to tolerate steroids due to intense migraines, or so is the theory. My MRI scans of the head have been normal.
Janice

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: pages2 (---.kc.rr.com)
Date:   04-15-02 08:10

Becky,
You are so right. Thank you for being such a great and wonderful compassionate Nurse. Keep educating the doctors every opportunity that you have.

Please view this site on pain.


Cher,
What kind of work have you done? Do you feel that your condition became worst after your mediasteinoscopy? When I had my M-scope with biopsy it seemed that it made me worst. Also I had my biopsy analyses for man made materials and there were many.


The first Neurologist that I saw thought that I was drug seeking. I had a bottle of meds at home that I still have and use only on the very worst pain. This med was RX in Nov so that tells one that I am not a pusher.
Just still in much pain. Tylenol does put me to sleep so that is what I will try until the pain is a 20 or higher on a pain scale of 1-10. National Jewish did have me see a Cognitive Pys, which did show that memory was not at it's best.

After all testing the Neurologist wanted to do a Lumbar puncture at which for now my husband has said NO. Please look at a site of lumber puncture about what they are looking for.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   04-15-02 09:31

Hi, I've been a Social Trainer (working with intellectually handicapped people) for almost 16 years. When I had my mediostenoscopy I had already been bedridden in hospital for nearly 3 months so I was in a really bad way to begin with. Apparently they had not been able to get a biopsy sample through the Bronchospopy that they had done earlier which made the need for the Mediostenoscopy.
I have just spent this past weekend back in hospital with some more problems with my Neurological state. I was rushed to hospital with severe head pain which felt like my brain was being squeezed & this spasmed on & off for 14 hours. I had very little speech & intermittent loss of feeling in each of my limbs. I was given a CT Scan when my blood pressure dropped to 60 over 30 because they feared I was bleeding into my brain. This scan came back clear & I was then given a Lumbar Puncture which also came back clear. When I left hospital on Sunday afternoon I was told that there was a 2% chance that I was bleeding into my brain & may stroke out. I eventually signed myself out because I felt that they had given up on me & had concluded that I had probably had a "new kind" of migraine.
I don't know what is causing these problems & no they haven't gone away except the spasms. I have been booked for an MRI Scan in June so we will see if there is any result from that.
Cheers .... Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Tonya Davis (---.advocatehealth.com)
Date:   04-15-02 14:02

I was diagnosed with sarcoid june of last year; prior to that I complained of having numbness, tingling and spasms in my legs and hands; my Dr's just seemed to ignore me; however my pcp did send me to have an emg where they make your muscles spasm on comand and found nothing. I do find that pain meds such as t3's don't do anything for me; I don't get drowsy and it dosen't take the pain away; so I've learned how to grin and bear the pain at this time.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   04-28-02 21:43

Great forum! I have neurosarc. I was hospitalized in December for the 5 day initial course of IV Solumedrol. Then as an out-patient , once a week for a month, then every other week until my neuro appt. on May 2nd.

For me I am worse. I currently take baclofen, zantac, celebrex, water pill and mirapex for restless leg syndrome (RLS). I weaned off of neurontin since my brain function was suffering. Also I take Actonel for bone loss. I took prednisone on and off for years and have the beginnings of osteoporosis of the spine.

Thank you for al the information to be found here. Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   04-29-02 10:31

Hi Caroline,
I was just wondering if you would mind telling us what your symptoms were & how you were diagnosed with Neurosarc. I think there are quite a few of us out here thinking we may have it but have found no real proof.
I for one would be extremely grateful. Cheers.. Stay Positive ... Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   04-29-02 20:25

Hi Cher,
Vague sx. started in about late 96 or 97. I developed a slight limp in my right leg. I had broke the right ankle and so I attributed it to arthritis (I am now 53). The limp got progressively worse. I also slowly developed numbness and tingling in my lower left forearm and little finger.

I am guessing here but I got pneumonia in the fall of 99. Being in the midwest it was still very warm and I had shorts on. My adult son noticed that my right calve was smaller than the left. I mentioned this to my PCP during the appt. When I said 'arthritis from an earlier break', he said the muscle change is not arthritis but nerves. PCP then sent me for emg and set me up to see a neuro. EMG showed damage but don't know specific term. The neuro did a LP suspecting MS and also MRI. The LP was fine but the MRI showed lesions. She said it wasn't in the correct spot for a small stroke. Ruled out MS also and gave a tentative diagnoses of vasculitis. She considered Bechet's also.

During all of this time I developed footdrop in the right foot. Also iritis in my right eye. My opthamologist (s) sent me for ACE blood test but my level was normal. This was done more than once because they could not clear it up. I took prednisone (which helped my limp) and eventually also had to have kenalog injections in my eye. Developed a cataract from the pred. And lost vision from having such severe iritis for so long. I would fall occassionally, feel like falling backwards washing my hair, sore throats and other sx. Once I fell in my kitchen and broke my foot.

Then during Easter week of 2001 I was scrubbing the floor on my hands and knees and couldn’t catch my breath nor get up from the floor. Husband took me to the ER. That is finally where a ‘sarc’ diagnoses was given. I had been in limbo for a long time. Sarc in my lungs was confirmed by broncoscopy and biopsy. Also it was stage 4. My pulmonologist is the first one to suggest sarc as the cause of ‘all’ the problems. Incidently, at this time of very active sarc in my lungs, my ACE level was 31….normal. So that is definitely not a predictor in my case.

I went back to the neuro when my breathing was under control with pred. She then suggested neurosarc but wasn’t quite sure. She sent me to the univ. hosp. My doc there gave me another brief emg and nerve conduction test. He is the one who started the solumedrol IV protocol with me. Unfortunately, so far it is unsuccessful. I see him again this thurs. (may 2). I will post what happens with this visit. Now my right hip hurts often, I dread knowing what that may mean.

Since December when I started medrol, I have gotten much much weaker. My numbness and tingling are also much worse. I am sick to my stomach often and very very fatigued. I took myself off of neurontin because of how it made me feel. Neurontin was for peripheral neuropathy and burning feet. Baclofen helps a lot with the spasticity in my legs but I have read that the more you take it the more you need, not sure if that is true. BUT I have increased my 30 mg a day to 50 since december. Doc said no more than 60mg/day, so am close to maxing out—maybe it is true.

I used to be very active and could do just about anything unless it required a man’s strength. Never the ‘afraid to break a nail’ type. I have also gained 50 pounds over the past couple years from the roids. My husband has to do just about everything in the yard and house. I cannot walk unassisted and have not driven in over a year. Used to have a CDL license too.

Taking a shower and getting dressed is major work. Previous to a diagnosis, I have tried B12 and B12 along with a LOT of vitamins then accupuncture, that was expensive! Ironically when my health went downhill coincides with when I quit smoking. Then it seems almost monthly I read about smoking keeping interleukin 6 to a dull roar. One theory is that IL6 may be indicated in auto-immune diseases.

If you have other questions, just ask. I sure enjoy this forum and it is in my daily ‘must reads’. Take care, Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   04-30-02 03:46

Thanks for telling us your story Caroline. My MRI is booked for the 7th June so when I see the Neurologist I will ask him about the nerve conduction test. Like you I love this site, it's great to hear other people know how I am feeling & what I am going through especially with the neuro problems which I don't have anyone to talk to about them. Thanks again Trevor. You make life alot more bearable for alot of us to get through this mysterious disease.
Cheers ... Stay Positive .. Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Laurie B. (---.tnt2.saginaw.mi.da.uu.net)
Date:   05-04-02 08:14

Hi my name is Laurie and I just found this site, I've cried just reading a few of the e-mails. I was diagnosed in 1990 with pulm and hepatic sarc. My first year I so so extemely fatigued that I couldn't get from my bed to couch without help. I was misdiagnosed as having hepatitis due to my increased liver enzymes. I am also a nurse. The fatigue remains but isn't a severe as that first year. I always know when my enzymes are elevated because I feel like I've been hit by a mac truck. I refuse to take any more pred due to the horrific side affects. My last round it took them a year to wean me off I would rather deal with the symptoms. I have a list of other ailments that are as long as my arm and then some. The Drs. all act like they never heard of sarc. It is so frustrating not knowing why everytime I turn around something else is wrong with me. I have been told to find a new profession due to my chronic achilles tendonitis, which they think is from the sarc or from the years of pred. I was diagnosed with diabetes which they also felt was pred induced. Then there is the A-flutter and the cardiologist thought I had sarc in the heart. The Drs. at the univ hosp said no. Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind. Whenever I do get something new I never have classic symptoms and we end up taking the long way around. Sorry I'm on such a soap box its just nice to know I not alone.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.226.---)
Date:   05-14-02 09:31

Hi Everyone,
Trevor, because I value & respect your opinions & knowledge I was wondering if you could shed any light onto this situation for me. My GP has just found the full results of my MRI from Dec 2000 after SCGH lost it. I was initially told that my MRI was clear as that was the only notes my GP received from SCGH. He has now traced the actual Scan & had it re-read by a Neurologist friend of his.
Now I am told that there are actually nodules on my brain but the Neurologist thinks they are not conducive of Neuro Sarc & also that the right side of my brain has Atrophied. I understand that Atrophy is, in laymans terms a sort of shrinking.
Is there any other sort of disease that could cause either of these occurences as well as the symptoms that I am going through, ie, blackouts, dizzinness, memory loss, blurred vision, numbness in limbs & extremities, severe headaches, speech dyphasia, etc etc etc?
I'd appreciate any light you may be able to shed on this for me ... my next MRI is scheduled for the 7th June.
Cheers ... Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   05-14-02 13:52

Hi Cher and All!
My MRI showed what my neuro called lesions. Yours -- nodules, I wonder if they are both referring to the same diagnosis by differing terms?

I just came from a womans meeting at church. One of the other ladies who has MS was just diagnosed with pulmonary sarc. She took a round of steroids. Stopped, experienced a return of sx., started pred again and is now on a routine 10mg. daily dose. 'They' initially thought I had MS too. The thought ran through my mind that maybe she is misdiagnosed.

Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   05-14-02 23:55

Hello again everyone,
Caroline, I too was diagnosed with MS, followed by TB, followed by Non Hodgkins Lymphoma, before the final diagnosis of Sarcoidosis. We have to just accept that Dr's aren't infallible & do make mistakes though I do know from personal experience my family were devastated as I was with the misdiagnosis of Hodgkins disease.
I think that the terming of nodules & lesions varies from Dr to Dr. I have two GP's one of whom calls them nodules & the other lesions.
Thanks everyone for making this such a great Phorum. This so called rare disease is becoming anything but, & the more people that can put forward their experiences the more we ourselves & Dr's will learn.
Cheers everyone & stay positive,
Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-15-02 06:26

Cher, an MRI scan determines fluid density in the body. The image is made from a radio frequency resonance in the water molecule. MRI can only image things that are physical in scale, at the size of something that you can see with the naked eye. It cannot image microscopic or chemical phenomena.

Atrophy is "A wasting away, a diminution in the size of a cell, tissue, organ or part". Atrophy in the context of an MRI scan only refers to changes that are gross changes, not those that are likely to be creating the symptoms you are suffering. The atrophy may be coming from the same genesis as your symptoms, but there is unlikely to be a closer connection than that.

I agree with your neuro. If he has seen nothing obvious on your MRI you are probably better to spend your energies looking elsewhere for a solution.

Cher, although the symptoms you are suffering are more severe than those that many other sarc patients experience, they could well be from fundamentally the same cause, just a little stronger. IMO, the obvious first thing to do is to attend to all the little things. You appear to already be doing this. You have had a course of antibiotics, you shrink from the sun, all the basic stuff. My suggestion is to try and get control of the intensity of the symptoms until you understand them better. If they seem to be biochemical in nature (coming from inflammation) then where is the inflammation? Why? If there is inflammation, what can be done to stop the waste from the macrophages from upsetting your body's chemical equilibrium? I wish there was a single simple answer, but our bodies are wonderful things. Extremely complex, resisting centuries of human effort to unlock their mysteries. The more we know the more we find out that we don't know!

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: FRANK H. MORING (---.mcn.bellsouth.net)
Date:   05-15-02 07:40

Good Morning,
I was diagnosed with sarcoidosis about 1961 or 1962. At that time an orange size something was found by way of a lung x-ray. Then by scalene biopsy I was diagnosed as sarcoid.

I had an x-ray every six months until the shadow was no longer there. At that time I was assured it was gone and I would never be bothered by it again. Now I know what kind of stuff that was.

Then I started producing kidney stones and at the same time I developed double vision. That was corrected by prisims in my glasses but about twenty years later prisims did not work. Then the diagnosis was "RIGHT SUPEROR OBLIQUE PALSY, CRANIAL NERVE IV." I believe they consider that neurosarcoidsis. Also I had an extremely high calcium. Nobody ever considered sarcoidosis out of remission.

Back during the time the eye problem was developing I was also having orthopedic problems. I could hardly put any weight on my left foot and steroids did no good. Eventually they said they could surgically remove the planter facsia which I let them do because I reached the point where I could hardly walk. It required about twenty years to recover from that.

There was also the problem with the extreme sensation of needles sticking into the bottom of my foot even before surgery. Don't even think about staying off your feet to keep it from hurting because that is when it really does hurt. During that time I had a kidney stone which they eventually made easy with morphine. The last thing I remember was the stone was not hurting any more but the foot was.

I am still having problems and pain. I have a rash I can not get rid of and I am having problems with cysist. I have a cyst under the bottom of each foot, both in the exact same place. I have something on the end of both ring fingers, identical in looks, in the same location on both fingers. I have a cyst in the palm of each hand and in the identical same place. It seems like what I have on one side, I have the same thing in the same place on the other side. How strange and unusual? Have them removed and they are back again about the time the incision heals.

During the early stages I also had migrane headaches which were unbearable.

The orthopedic problems include a lumbar fusion, cervical fusion, knee cart on both knees around 1970, then bi-lateral knee replacement two years ago plus that foot surgery about 1968.

I am still having problems and pain with this mess and I have to take painkillers. I have a compassionate Physician but he does not know what to do about it.

I would like to hear from somebody else, especially if you have had cyst problems similiar to what I have had.

I apologize for the errors in this letter, especially medical terms this processor does not contain.

PLEASE LET ME HEAR FROM YOU

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-15-02 07:52

Frank,
Kidney stones are usually a sign of abnormal calcium metabolism. They can be analyzed to make sure they are from calcium deposition, if you can ever catch them in those strainer things they give you at the hospitals. Even when the normal tests a doctor does for abnormal calcium give correct results, a sarcoid patient often shows signs on the X-rays of calcium deposition into the lung tissues and, in your case, into the kidneys. There is no reason to believe that the brain may not be similarly affected, nor is there evidence to prove such an association at this point.

What you don't tell us in your history, is the list of drugs you have been given and for how long, and what you are still taking. Some of the drugs given to sarc patients can affect many parts of the body.

As you were describing your feet, I couldn't help but remember the cysts that I saw on the feet of diabetic patients who had been on long-term insulin injections. Have you blood sugar levels been behaving themselves?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Diane M. (---.rasserver.net)
Date:   05-30-02 22:51

Hi, everyone:

A couple of years ago I burned my arm (3rd degree burn). While curling my hair with the hot curlers, I forgot what I was doing. The curler fell from my hand and landed on my arm where it remained for quite a while, hanging, burning my arm and tangled in my hair. What was I doing? I don't know, just standing there in a daze. I have a terrible scar. I had to debride that burn for a month!

Anyway, I am experiencing memory loss, fatigue, pain, numbness, confusion, and have had a spinal tap, eeg, etc. I have been on Imuran, Plaquenil and am currently on Methotextrate as well as the daily Prednisone. The doctor says I may be suffering from neuro-toxicity due to the Methotextrate. Has anyone heard of this? Are the symptoms reversible?

Diane

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   05-31-02 05:52

Diane,
Your doctor is probably concerned that if you continue to take Methotrexate and Prednisone their effects on your body will be far more toxic than the sarcoidosis itself. These are two of the strongest and most dangerous drugs in the formulary. Imuran is not far behind.

Some of the symptoms are reversible. Some patients who have been on prednisone for more than about 6 months struggle with osteoporosis for the rest of their lives. Some get Diabetes, some Asthma. It's the luck of the draw. There is plenty of reading on this forum (see the links at the bottom of the page, for instance) so that you can find out more about these issues.

Prednisone is a drug that is very effective at knocking down inflammation and giving a person time to get their lifestyle adjustments in order, but it is not a cure for sarc. Quite the opposite, it brings its own set of tribulations. As does Metho.

Keep smiling,
..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   05-31-02 10:25

Dear Trevor:
I know exactly what you mean. I have pain...lots of it..in various parts of my body. The most severe pains were most likely caused by the fact that I was on Prednisone for a long period of time (8 months) and another bout was 6 months. All from Jan 2000 till now.
I had two avuncular fractures...one in shoulder and another in elbow. I also developed what I think is Avascular Necrosis (bone death of hip bone from Prednisone). I found this information on the articles below.
I had severe hip area pain...couldn't walk, sit down and was first diagnosed with bursitis of the hip. I tried Physical Therapy twice...2 sets of 10 visits each. I tried heat....pain pills (which I am still on). I cannot stand on the affected leg today. I don't believe that bursitis lasts 10 months!
The doctor has ordered another x-ray of the hip but she doesn't think that is what I have. Well what do I have then? And finally she prescribed the pain patch Duragesic for me to try.
I sometimes don't care what is causing the pain.....just get rid of it. Other times I am searching and searching for answers.
I still don't know whether I should see an Immunologist or not. I have not been to one as yet.
The lumps that are forming on knees, ankles, hip are soft but tender to touch....so what are they? No one says to me (no doctor) this is what they are. I guess no one knows.
Any thoughts, ideas or advice would be welcome.
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   05-31-02 10:35

Dear Laurie B.
I dislike saying this, but most doctors do not know much about Sarcoidosis. I have seen many in the last few years and those with normal egos will tell you that they don't know about Sarc. They seem to know that Prednisone is given and that everyone who gets Sarcoidosis has different symptoms. That is one of our problems....not enough is known.
I wish we had fund raisers and public awareness to be updated and informed about "us".
Gosh we don't even have support groups that meet.....at least in my area of the country...which is New England.
Any ideas on how to make people aware of us?????
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Debbie (---.dialip.mich.net)
Date:   06-14-02 17:22

Trevor,
I just read one of your comments about prednisone (which I took for about 6 months). You mentioned asthma. I never knew I had asthma until my last visit with the pulmonologist. He wrote my administration a note to get rid of my chalkboards and he commented that I had sarcoidosis along with asthma. So, are you saying that this could possibly be one of the many side-effects of the prednisone? I could have possibly had it before because I've never been one to go to doctors until this last year. Anyway, I never knew asthma could be one of the side effects. You're teaching me more and more each day.

I can get used to this sitting back and being the student instead of the teacher! I kind of like it. Thanks!

Debbie

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   06-14-02 23:00

Debbie,
Well, while you are in the mood for revelation, take a look at this review, questioning whether prednisone is safe for respiratory illnesses because it is know to cause respiratory muscle weakness and/or muscle failure

Reviews are typically written by experts in a field, and are extensive summaries of all the research that is current at that time. They are more authoritative than research papers. So did anybody listen to this? -yes- but obviously not the doctors who are routinely treating patients....

Give it another decade or so...

..Trevor..
ps: Thanks for all the links, Belinda...

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   06-19-02 10:17

Hello everyone once again,
I recieved the results (ha ha) of my latest MRI on monday. The full report said that "The patient displays no clinical signs of Neurosarcoidosis".
Unfortunately I didn't see my regular G.P (who would have jumped up & down for more information) & will see him on Friday, but I was very disappointed to find that that was all they could say. I did query what had happened to the Atrophocation of the right side of my brain & the granulomas that were visible 18 months ago. I sarcastically said to her that I was not aware that brains could grow back (being that there was no mention of the atrophy) & asked if the granulomas were non existent or had just decreased in size to which she replied "they hadn't said". Oh the frustration these Dr's can cause. Can they not just give us the answers that we need?
Oh yeah, finally I asked her for a referral to an Opthamologist or any sort of eye specialist to which she replied "you can go to just specatacles & they'll give you a reading test for nothing". AAAAAAHHHHHH ....
Sorry for the whinge. I needed to get that all out.
Cheers everyone & stay positive (I need to take my own advice maybe lol)
Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   06-19-02 10:29

Cher,
Its good news that you have no physical damage. Not bad news. It indicates that something else must be driving your neuroses. It indicates the condition is most probably reversible. You know the test that is needed. Insist on it even more strongly now.

I am not going to defend the MRI staff. I have said in the past that MRI, CAT scans and Xrays are terribly subjective and often of little use in diagnosis and prognosis of sarcoidosis. They can only find physical changes, while most of the sarc changes are biochemical, especially the neuropathy. This is an unpopular view, but I still stand by it.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   06-20-02 07:54

Dear Trevor:
I reread the comments in Neurosarcoidosis, pain and memory loss....and I find it so amazing that so many other people have the same symptoms and are suffering the same pain as I have!
I have just had another x-ray of my right hip....negative results and yet the pain and loss of strength in my leg is so evident. I limp, use a cane. I find online that it very well could be Avascular Necrosis.....and yet.....wouldn't it show up on x-ray????? I have been told by my doctor to have an MRI...the second one for the same hip pain.
I have always prided myself on my excellent memory and lately I notice that I will be going to do something and forget what it was. I also seem to halt before I can think of the word...not all the time.
I now have an umbilical hernia....and that seemed to come about when I had been on Prednisone for the second bout...and I came off the drug due to avuncular fractures and the pain and hip problem.
I had broken a bone in my left foot while on Prednisone and walked around on it for a month before I went to the foot doctor and he x-rayed it and it was broken. I had to wear a cast and use a bone stimulator for 5 months.
The surgeon says that I will have to undergo surgery NOT having general anesthesia for the hernia repair...due to my breathing problem. I use Pulmicort and Intal Inhalers.....when needed......
I am so disgusted that I am not going to have the surgery nor am I going to have any more x-rays or tests. One reason: when I had fractured my right shoulder and had numerous x-rays that year....I developed a Melanoma on right shoulder! I had it removed...and now have to be seen every 6 months by the dermatologist.
I get a lot of information and support from this site......but I give up on any more tests.....probing......
The best to all of you......and I will stay "tuned in".
Thanks.
Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   06-20-02 09:13

Dear Caroline,
I just had to answer your last post because I totally understand what you are going through (apart from the broken bones) & know the frustration of being either used as a pin cushion/guinea pig or to be completely ignored & not shown any respect. I like everyone else just want some answers ... whether we are on or have been on Prednisone what help can we get? When will the Dr's start to listen to us?
My biggest fear is that my speech problems are becoming more & more severe & more & more often & when I try to get the info I want ... that is often when I can't speak. I totally lose the ability to speak because I can't find the words I need (totally forget) & then if I do remember the word I can't remember how to say it or how to make it come out. I've always been told this is called Speech Dysphasia, but how & why I have it is a mystery. No wonder we get depressed & so totally frustrated with the medical profession. I really understand that Dr's don't have all the answers & are only human & prone to mistakes like the rest of us but I don't understand how they can fob off our suffering, refuse to do any further testing or refuse to attempt to understand what this disease does to our lives.
I for one would like to have a few days here & there where I had no pain, no memory loss, no speech dysphasia & the ability to lead a "normal" life. I'd like to have a day where I had enough breath to go for a walk with my dogs, or take them for a swim at the beach.
So hang in there, many of us are in the same boat & are as frustrated as you are. As I always say ... Stay Positive, hopefully with a positive outlook & with so many of us putting forward our symptoms, our suffering & our frustration, somebody will sit up & take notice.
Cheers ... Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.cu27.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   06-20-02 09:28

Caroline,
At UCLA they routinely perform heart and Lung Transplants on patients with advanced Sarcoidosis so anyone that tells you that you can't have a general anaesthetic is incompetent or lying or both.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-03-02 09:03

Hi all,
just a little update on my change of treatment since being pulled off neoral (cyclosporin). i have seen a new pulmonary doc who specializes in sarc. (gee, she was hard to find). she sent me for a second opinion as to neurosarc with another neuro.

combined testing was; PFT's, brain MRI and chest CT following lengthy office exams. am also scheduled for another bone scan of my spine and x-rays....seems i have shrunk 1-3/4 inches.

all concur with neurosarcoidosis as the diagnosis. i am now on methotextrate, 10mg once a week. second dose this friday. this is to hopefully at the minimum preserve my CNS from further detioriation. i have had a steady decline in my neurological sx. for a number of weeks. I asked the neuro what is next if this doesn't help my decline......IV chemo and brain radiation, UGH! hubbie is still my pillar of strength and assures he would love a 'baldie' too.

i need to touch base to discuss my bloodwork results with the pulmonary doc. staying out of the sun and light and trying to eat healthy.

thanks for all you do. trevor..................caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-03-02 09:13

Caroline,
It is sooooo frustrating to be ignored. I spent so much time trying to help you...

What did your serum 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D3 level measure at? And the 25 hydroxyvitamin D?

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-03-02 11:36

Hi Trevor,

From my post:
"I need to touch base to discuss my bloodwork results with the pulmonary doc. staying out of the sun and light and trying to eat healthy."

She is on vacation right now. And yes, I do very much appreciate your advice Trevor!

Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-03-02 11:47

Caroline,
The 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D3 has got little to do with being healthy - that hormone can be causing your 'neurosarc'.

But you will never know - the MTX will mess up any measurements you do now.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Nancy Cole (---.public.svc.webtv.net)
Date:   07-04-02 17:54

Dearest Trevor
Please, I hope you are keeping journal's Of all the vast knowledge you have accumulated. I know little about you, but see your passion and compassion for all, with this dreaded disease. Having just found this forum, I want to shout to all, listen, for God's sake listen to him. I have had every symptom that has been presented to you on this forum over the past few weeks (I kid you not) but am a lot older, have less energy than they, and am literally running out of time. I wish I could have found you even five years ago. All we have to depend on is the research and experience that others give us. Surley that is evident by the response given us by our doctors. If any of you think that getting help now is hard, wait until they think you just want attention, are losing your memory, have no pain tolerance, the grey hair makes you stupid or yes, are just lonely!!! Maybe if we keep asking for all the tests and showing our doctors we have research, they will take notice long enough to do their own research. Keep on telling it the way you are Trevor and Thanks.

Nancy Cole

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   07-04-02 21:20

Hi Nancy,
Please don't think that you are alone in all that you've been through. Many of us whether we are young & old have experienced the same treatment as you. I have been told on numerous occassions that my symptoms are all in my mind (even when I was in hospital on Oxygen twenty four hours a day for three months continuously). I have just turned 36 & my grey hairs aren't visible (thanks to a brilliant hairdresser ha ha). I've been told that Sarcoidosis doesn't affect your life, that I only have symptoms because I am depressed, that I am lonely & that if I "got a life", I would be fine. So hold onto all that you can through this Phorum & the knowledge that we have all been through it, that we all care how this affects others as well as ourselves & of course that we understand what you are going through & believe me it has nothing to do with age. Trevor has already helped so many of us & is an absolutely wonderful support (& of course he too knows & has felt all what we are feeling).
Take care,
Cheers to everyone & stay positive
Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Nancy Cole (---.public.svc.webtv.net)
Date:   07-04-02 22:05

Cher,
Sorry if I came on a little too strong. I just wanted all of you kids out there to hang together. I really feel for now that is your only chance of a life worth living. Pass on any and all information from your experiences. I am not much of a computer talker, but sure nice to read what you all have to say about your symptoms and what medications they are trying on you. In my home town when you tell your doctor you have sarcoidosis, they say sarca what? My family has been very supportive but all of us are getting very tired of talking about it, so it is good to know that I can evesdrop on all of you and still know that I haven't completely lost it yet. Every day is a new adventure, is what I tell my friends. Have a good pain free day!!!
Nancy

Nancy Cole

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Cher (144.138.225.---)
Date:   07-06-02 08:49

Hi everyone,
Nancy, Please don't apologise for saying what you are feeling. Anyone who has read this Phorum will have seen my many many many postings of me whining lol. I am so totally grateful that Trevor started the Phorum because I now feel slightly normal lol.
Take care ... Cheers & Stay Positive
Cher

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-09-02 14:39

Dear Trevor:
I was advised to take another round of Physical Therapy. I had taken two last year. This would be a different therapist. However, I have so much pain....that if I move it worsens.....so why would P.T. help me? I don't know what the doctor is thinking....I already wear a Pain Patch...Duragesic 50 mg....for 72 hours. Any comments?
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-09-02 16:49

Caroline,
IMO, Your doctor is sending you a message. He doesn't want to treat you any more. He just wants you to find another doctor. He is at his wits end. I can think of no other reasonable explanation for why anybody would prescribe PT for a patient who is in as much pain as you. What is it likely to achieve? Did the prescription for the PT say what the therapist was supposed to achieve?
..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-10-02 13:43

Dear Trevor:
As it happens, my doctor called me today....to report what my blood test showed. A slight elevation of one point on BUN test which she said was slight but to have it repeated again in a couple of weeks. That day I waited a long time to get in to see her, hadn't eaten or drank water or anything for a long while....I do think something like that as simple as it may seem (not eating or drinking) can affect blood tests.
I told her that I didn't have the MRI repeated as advised either...it was to include my hip only and I ache all over....so why have one area done? The x-rays and previous MRI's have shown inflammation only. ?
I told her how I felt about P.T.... the last time I had two series done (last summer) it made things worse. She thinks that this time would be different. I am confused.
Does P.T. help Sarcoidosis?
I would do anything at all right now if it would help. I think I have tried all ways suggested so far and no results have been good.
Do you believe that Tetracycline is similar to the other cyclines drugs? How do they work in the body of a Sarcoid patient?
Thanks for your attention and advice.
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-10-02 14:28

Caroline,
Did your doctor tell you what she hoped the therapist could achieve for you? If not, why not? Did your doctor convince you that the PT was a good idea? Well, maybe it is not such a good idea then.

Doctors are people, and even though they try to project infallibility, sometimes the veneer slips a little.

It is not up to me to say how PT will help your symptoms - it is up to your doctor. Maybe she thinks the symptoms are psychosomatic - I have no idea - you have to gather up the courage to ask her.

What were your 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D3 levels?

Keep smiling,
..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-11-02 07:00

Dear Trevor:
I am going to ask her about the 1,25 Dihy. (?) levels for this next blood work due in a couple of weeks. Also the other D3 level.
I wondered also if at one time she thought it was all in my mind but no she said that she knew I was in pain....and people who have pain, real pain, aren't psychosomatic or hypochondriacs. She also told my daughter who is her patient too, that she would do anything for me as she likes me and knows I am in pain?????
The doctor thinks this P.T. can do wonders....has helped many people...and I am sure he does. Yet still to do the every day normal things I have to do....hurts....and I do them..living alone.
I might just meet with the therapist for the one hour first visit and tell him what is what....he may decide too, that it wouldn't help me.
I will check out what you wrote about blood levels....see what comes of that.
Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-13-02 15:33

Caroline,
Your doc seems to be treating the wrong problem. Here is an article I just came across which seems to mirror your doc's attitude. Its as if sarc and neuro didn't exist at all...

Your plan to discuss it with the therapist seems a good one.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-13-02 19:20

Dear Trevor:
I think you are right about the fact that MOST doctors think and believe that you do have to keep moving. I live alone, but my daughter and I have bought a two family home and she lives upstairs. I do move and make myself move even when the pain is severe. I have fallen many times because I do move and then because of the weakness in my leg and hip along with the pain....I can fall when trying to balance on the one leg with hip and buttocks or sacral bones involved.
I am going to meet with the Physical Therapis Tuesday and talk to him and see what he plans to try for me. If anyone can help me I will try anything about now.
I printed out your comments and suggestions regarding the blood levels of D3 etc. and I will make a copy and send them to my physician to look over.
Thanks again for the information and advice. I appreciate this site.
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline McGuirl (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-13-02 19:36

Dear Trevor:
I am taking Tetracycline daily now.....will this affect the D3 levels and Vit. D when blood work is done now?
I have been told to take Calcium tablets.....is that good or not? I get confused a bit about what is good and not good...comparing sarcoidosis to a person who does not have sarcoidosis but wants to be healthy. ?
Caroline Mc.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-13-02 21:10

Caroline,
As far as I know, tetracycline will not adversely affect your blood panel. Check with your doctor.

Calcium tablets are harmless enough in sarcoid, but many calcium tablets contain Calciferol or Vitamin D and this is very bad. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES take Vit D supplementation unless your doctor signs his first-born away in a written contract saying that it will not harm a sarc patient

Stay away from Vit D 'fortified milk' and 'fortified' health foods.
www.TraderJoes.com is a chain with milk and other healthy foods without all the added unecessary stuff.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Doreen Harris-Simpson (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-25-02 16:35

Hi There from here:

Developed a new wrinkle today, well actually been in development for several days. I have become quite dizzy, I had an appointment with my doctor today who has now prescribed meclizine. He also scheduled an MRI to r/o neurosarc.

I'm a bit confused because he tells me if you have pulmonary sarc (which I have diagnosed by biopsy) that you don't usually get neurosarc, so now I'm obviously confused. I have a unique relationship with my doctor basically because I have worked with him for years in the clinical setting. He's actually an oncologist/hematologist, however, it's probably as close to someone who is a sarc specialist as my small rural state will ever get! I also have a great deal of respect for him. I've had two doses of MTX. He's scheduled the MRI and a consult with a neurologist. I guess the questions of the day for me are:

1. Can you get neurosarc if you have pulmo sarc?
2. Will the MTX screw up those vitamin D level tests? (in other words, should I bother asking for them....when I heard about them I was already on MTX
3. How many doses of MTX should I take before I decide it isn't working (other than making me nauseated)?

Thanks for any responses, I appreciate them. I appreciate being able to get on this site and get much needed info.

Doreen

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-25-02 17:46

Doreen,
Neurosarc can co-exist with pulmonary-sarc, but I'll bet that you don't have that problem. Get the D tests done, preferably during or soon after (same day) that one of these dizzy spells is happening, and you will be able to see if that is the cause.

I don't know if MTX will mess up the tests - there is nothing in the literature about doing D tests on MTX patients because MTX is a drug which is normally only used on very seriously ill patients, and so many other factors come into play with them...

How many doses of MTX should I take before I decide it isn't working?
This is the 64 thousand dollar question. Chances are, your doctor didn't even set out a plan for you, stating what he was trying to achieve, let alone how long it would take to achieve it

The drug companies would like you to use the drugs for 6 months or a year. Clinical studies usually last about this long. So I am sure that is the period of time your doctor would recommend.

Personally, I believe that any drug that is supposed to have an effect on sarcoid patients should have a measurable effect in a month, 2 at the outside. This estimate is based on the dynamics of the body's systems rather than any doctrinally dictated periods.

MTX has documented side-effects, particularly the tendency to form polyps on the throat and vocal chords, and you want to watch carefully for these.

Is this the information you needed?

..trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Caroline (---.win.org)
Date:   07-25-02 21:16

Hi Doreen,

I know you asked Trevor and hope you don't mind I give mine too. (I agree with Trevor)

I have biopsy/broncoscopy proven pulmonary sarc. I also have neurosarcoidosis according to two neurologist, MRI's and neuro exams. I won't be redundant and list my neuro sx.

To add more excitement, and challenges, I have Iritis/uveitis and bone involvement. Now my docs think a heart problem to boot. Most descriptions of sarc. say 'multi-system'.

I take MTX. -- this friday will be my fifth dose. I am told 6 months for it to help-then on to again something else.

I requested and my doc added, the two D3 tests along with other bloodwork after producing Trevor's paper but those are still 'pending'.

Learn all you can here. Trevor's knowledge is a godsend in this misunderstood disease.

Take care, Caroline

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-25-02 21:49

Caroline,
The good news is that if your D tests do come back showing an abnormal regulation (low to normal 25 hydroxyvitamin D3 and normal to high 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D3) then the ARB therapy can be added to the MTX with virtually no risk. Millions of people all over the world are now on ARB therapy for high blood pressure, and your doctor will feel very comfortable with prescribing it. The dosage has to be specially adjusted to work with Sarc patients, and that is the breakthrough which I made.

As the symptoms disappear your doc can then gradually wean you off MTX and the endless cycle of similar, marginally effective, medicines.

..Trevor..
ps: Have you shown your Cardio a copy of our Manuscript? The same macrophage driven hyper-inflammation can cause both sarc and cardiac problems

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Doreen Harris-Simpson (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-26-02 05:25

Hi Trevor,

Thanks for the response. I appreciate the information, and I will request that the blood tests be run. I can e-mail my doc and perhaps he'll order for me.

You were right MTX for at least 6 months!!!!!!! However, I have a re-evaluation with scanning and PFT at 2 months. I just didn't feel any difference and now this other symptom has cropped up and I have to wonder if it is something new or could be chalked up to side-effect. (I'm extremely sensitive to medications.)

Thanks for the help,

Doreen

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Doreen Harris-Simpson (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-26-02 05:29

Hi Caroline,

Thanks for the response. I do learn a lot from this site, and appreciate everyone's willingness to share their experiences. It's nice to know one is among friends.

Doreen

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Doreen (---.proxy.aol.com)
Date:   07-26-02 15:25

Hi Trevor:

I just wanted to let you know that I gave the information regarding the vitamin D blood tests to my doctor. He was very receptive of the information and was glad someone was studying this disease. He even asked how he could contact you directly and I directed him to the website. I hope that is okay.

I just wanted to let you know how it was going, and to thank you once again for all you do.

Regards,

Doreen Harris-Simpson, CTR

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   07-26-02 15:34

Doreen,
My telephone number, FAX and email are on the front cover page of the manuscript. Tell your doctor he/she can call at any time and speak to me (or my co-author).
..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Debbie (---.lai-ca-1-136.rasserver.net)
Date:   08-05-02 20:11

saw your message about fatigue and having a normal head MRI
Just did that and also had a normal MRI.
but i'm baffled, I feel something must be going on.
Was diagnosed around 1/2 year ago with pulmonary sarcoid and have been getting treated with methotraxate. my cough is gone now.
However, I've been having strange headaches, pressure on the back of my skull, have had a few bouts with dizziness, low blood pressure, and of course, extreme fatigue knocking the you know what out of me. However, that extraordinary fatigue is only once in a while. now the doc is suggesting that i have chronic fatigue syndrome. I am very wary of this, since i have the feeling that when a doc doesn't know what's going on they give that diagnosis a try. Oh - I almost forgot -- I have feelings often of "mental fogginess". The only way I can describe it is that I have to physically try to shake my head to make it clear up. Does any of this sound familiar? What do you suggest? What have you found out?
Can't wait to hear from you.

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-05-02 20:43

Debbie,
Get your 1,25 Dihydroxyvitamin D and 25-hydroxyvitamin D levels both measured before you go running off to a neurologist. If they told you your MRI was OK, then it must be something else.

Your problem is almost certainly 1,25dihydroxyvitamin D intoxication. Cedars Sinai is one of the most advanced Health Centers in the world to treat this condition, Dr John Adams, head of Endocrinology there, has written dozens of papers about sarcoidosis and 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D.

Why do I have to keep saying the same thing over and over again? Is the solution too simple? Click here to go to the thread which explains the tests. Pleeez get the blood work done.

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   08-05-02 22:56

Trevor said, "Why do I have to keep saying the same thing over and over again? Is the solution too simple?... Pleeez get the blood work done."

I would like to try to answer that question. Yes, it is too simple, and it sounds contrary to what we believe to be true, so let's address some of these issues:

Vitamin D is good for you, and most people are concerned about people getting enough
Normal people manufacture all the vitamin D they need with a few minutes of sunlight three times per week. Sarcoidosis patients are not normal people. We have all the normal ways of making vitamin D from sunlight - in addition to our abnormal macrophage production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D. The result is we can take sunlight and turn it into three or four times the active vitamin D a normal person would get. Our macrophage production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D bypasses the controls that limit production by the kidneys. This was discovered more than 20 years ago, when a sarcoidosis patient without kidneys was able to produce so much excess vitamin D he was hypercalcemic. Keep in mind that what you might read about vitamin D for normal people may not apply to you, as a sarcoid patient.

With all the benefits of vitamin D, research continues into the role of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D and possible pharmaceutical uses such as fighting cancer. The obstacle there is the same one sarcoidosis patients face: high concentrations of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D causes symptoms such as vomiting, weight loss, pain, calcium deposits in soft tissue, hypercalcuria, hypercalcemia and even osteoporosis.

Why hasn't someone already told me this?
Hypervitaminosis D (excess vitamin D) is not common in normal people. The number of people in the world with sarcoidosis - and the dysregulated vitamin D that goes with it - is considered to be small. Along with a complicated diagnostic process, sarcoidosis has complicated symptoms, and one of these is dysregulated vitamin D metabolism. The information has been obscure, except to those who were searching for it. You must be looking for answers - or you wouldn't be reading this.

How can I know whether my body has too much of this vitamin D?
Symptoms for excess vitamin D are evident, even before hypercalcemia. One early symptom I get is irritability; others are listed here. The only way you will know if you have too much biologically active vitamin D is to get the blood tests done.

I had to find a doctor who enjoys solving mysteries to find out I have sarcoidosis. If you have a doctor who solves mysteries, testing your vitamin D levels is part of evaluating clues. You may feel like your doctor will order these tests if they are needed. I would point out that some of us have had to "ask" for chest X-rays or referrals or other things to help us. Especially if you are having symptoms, giving your doctor an article such as this one and asking that vitamin D levels be tested is part of taking care of yourself.

I have to admit that I had to open up my mind to consider all the possibilities of what makes my symptoms worse. Only after that.. did I discuss the vitamin D research with my doctor and ask to have the blood tests done. My 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D levels were high.

Take good care of yourself,
Belinda

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-06-02 05:50

Belinda,
Don't make too many excuses for the medical profession. It really is solely to blame for the suffering of sarcoid patients from 1,25-dihydroxyvitaminD.

Just this week Debbie asked about Hypervitaminosis D on the MUSC message board. She was told only about Calcium. Not about all the other side effects. She was not told about the Neuro effects (the FDA lists "mental retardation" for hypervitaminosis D, why didn't MUSC mention this?) Click on this link to see what the Federal Drug Administration (FDA) says about the symptoms of Hypervitaminosis D. Why didn't MUSC tell Debbie about them? Click on this link to find some more symptoms. There is absolutely no excuse, in my opinion. Poor education is responsible for most of the suffering of Sarcoid patients all these years. It certainly has to take all of the blame for all my suffering. I found such a simple fix...

Half a century ago, 1950, Scadding (the father of modern pulmonary medicine) was describing hypervitimanosis D in sarcoidosis. How can the pulmonologists not know about it yet? There really is no excuse...

I will, however, note that Facial palsy and Paralysis are not listed as due to Hypervitimanosis D in the USA and the UK. But in France they are recognized as side effects of both Tuberculosis and Sarcoidosis, and treated together with the pulmonary disease. In the US we send the patient to a Neurologist instead of recognizing that the paralysis is nothing other than too much 1,25-dihydroxyvitaminD from the Granulatomous inflammation. This is a mistake, but must be blamed on "the system" rather than "the profession".

..Trevor..

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Belinda (---.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net)
Date:   08-06-02 09:12

Trevor,

Okay. Maybe it is too simple. Abnormal production of 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is NOT as complicated as what researchers are looking for as the cause of our pain. If dysregulated 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D is simple enough for sarcoid patients to understand, I'll grant that doctors should be able to understand, too.

On the other hand, for most of us with sarcoidosis, nothing related to the disease has been easy. My point is.. it should come as no surprise we need to work with our doctors to share this information, and to ask for tests of levels of 25-hydroxyvitamin D and 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D if we are having symptoms. It's a lot easier than asking for some of the things we ask.

Take care,
Belinda

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain, bad memory-what to do?
Author: Mark Morse (---.sanmina-sci.com)
Date:   08-07-02 15:11

Trevor,

You mentioned on another thread that the D3 test results must be judged according to genotype. What is high for one may be normal for another, etc. How does one establish which genotype he/she is?

 
 Re: Neurosarcoidosis, pain - there is a simple answer
Author: Admin (---.vnnyca.adelphia.net)
Date:   08-07-02 15:21

No, the D3 test is not genotype specific. You are thinking about the serum ACE values. Click here to read about ACE

With the 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D it is important to also get the 25-hydroxyvitamin-D test because the ratio of these two values can give a better idea of the amount of granulatomous inflammation than can the 1,25-D alone.

The problem is that 1,25-dihydroxyvitamin D varies fairly quickly (changes every hour or so). So unless you have it taken while you are feeling ill you might not get a really high value. But the ratio